AquaKnight Wrote:...
We have grown into a culture where we want to emulate the look we would want in a partner....leading to a culture where we all strive to fit in a box so we can find others who fit in our desired box. This ideal of fairytales and perfection in relationships/mates has led us to this reality because no one wants to settle combined with physical perfection 9 times out of ten leads to failure....however i do feel we shouldn't have to when it comes to something as important as a partner but we should be flexible.
I think the issue is we think there will be that person who is "perfect" and it doesn't happen so we let go of really great people because we aren't satisfied. This leads us to a culture trend of short relationships and anonymous sex because even if people aren't dating they still want to get laid( i know i do).
There might be a part of narcissism in wanting to have a relationship with your own sex (some psychologists seems to suggest that)... It might also be an easy solution knowing that you'll have similar reactions to things, while the opposite sex might not... but that's only part of the picture...
The short relationships you are referring to happen for two reasons in my opinion, that have nothing to do with how choosy gays are (as you seem to think). I think everyone is potentially choosy, male or female. But the fact that the number of gays is much lower than for straights, makes it more difficult to find a potential partner for one thing, and also may lead you to select the wrong partner solely because he's also gay (and it's a rare ''comodity'', so you grab him while you can), therefore leading to poor judgement in partners (but this also happens to straights, leading to divorce). That, and the fact, as you said, that gay men want to enjoy sex too, leads to them hooking up casually. Note that straights also hook up casually, it's a human thing, when you want to get laid. Not all straight intercourse leads to a lifetime partnership. In that gays are no exception.
Gay men often discover their sexuality and orientation later on in life (once they've ruled out the straight option), therefore are likely to feel they've missed out on the experimenting of adolescence. They may try to cram as much sex experience at a time when their sexuality is at its peak, as young adults, and if older they are trying to pack in as much as they can because they've been frustrated for so long... and anyway you never know how long you're going to live. All of this may change once it's more accepted to be gay and once we can live our sexuality on the same lifetime span as our straight counterparts.
The second reason is that the more you've been frustrated in your sexual choices, the more likely you are to make the ''wrong decisions'' about a potential partner. You'll grab whatever's going, but that doesn't mean you're going to be compatible in the long run. If it's your dick talking, it can be very ''unpicky'', truly.
I can't help thinking that if homosexuality was a less covert option, and we didn't have to hide (and if there was more choice to pick from, all sections of society included) then gays, as a whole, would be much more like their straight counterparts, not necessarily better, but similar.
I don't buy that gays are more competitive than straights. Not one bit. Don't forget that straights don't always find their glass slipper perfect fit either; look at the rate of divorces.
Then there's also what society will allow. In some societies being gay is so frowned upon, or so dangerous that it will lead to furtive encounters, never partnerships (they become impossible, and then the pattern is set, socially speaking). But since there is no risk of a pregnancy, it can still remain quite anonymous, and invisible, leaving no traces. Not surprisingly, many men who still consider themselves straight have sex with other men... Those men can never form a relationship or partnership that will appear gay to the world and be stable. It's statistical. Are you going to include these encounters in your study of gay lifestyle and fickleness? I guess they compute too. But is it fair to compare, then?
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Quote:When did it become a (gay) crime to just be a human being? I would love to find a decent man and settle down, but I know that will never happen. But I also know there some couples out there who have defied all of the BS and been together for years, if not most of their lives. What is thier secret? Why cant they share it with the rest of us?
I have never been involved in...gay society I suppose. Mainly because prior to testosterone I was not seen as a gay male. Even now though, my gay friends don't really see me as a gay guy...or even a guy at that. Which is interesting and weird and also why I don't spend much time with them. I have also been told by some of my trans friends that trans guys are often...rejected by gay guys...I guess it's almost like the same negative reaction a homophobic straight male has towards gay men. However I personally have not experienced that. But I find the gay men I talk to, aren't really..invovled in that "society." So my secret to getting out of the BS? I never got in it in the first place. But then again I had a pretty solid reason. I didn't exactly "fit in."
That being said, my boyfriend is a gay male, non trans. I often wonder if we were to go to a gay club or something and others would know he's dating a tranny what types of reactions would they have. Would be considered a traitor by some? Or would it be no issue? Or would they just be fascinated about what sex is like? I know all reactions would exist but I'm quite curious about which one would happen more. I'm talking about this because I think it's relevent to the brainwashing.
I think the people within that society have been told that gay men must be revolted by vaginas, worship penis, and act in all the ways you described. I don't think that everyone who is those ways is necessarily brainwashed and I don't think they have to be negative traits. But yes, I would agree that there are probably many gay men out there who are a certain way because they have been told that is what they're supposed to do.
My boyfriend on the other hand is dating a tranny...pre-op and seems to think absolutely nothing of it. When we had sex it seemed totally normal. Yeah I'm a dude without a dick..but I'm a dude and that's his attraction, it's to men not to penis and I don't have one so we work with what we got. He's also the kind of guy that when he tells people he's gay...they're surprised. He doesn't uphold any of those stereotypes (although he IS planning on going to hair school lol). But I think, like me, he just never got involved in that gay society. He did is own thing.
One guy I briefly dated was completely a stereotypical gay male. One that was definately involved in this society. I was very surprised that when we first had sex he planned on doing it the.....not so traditional gay way. And he had a meltdown. TOTAL meltdown. He flipped out. He wondered if that made him bi (which btw did offend me a little) and he was talking about how it changes everything and all that it was insanely dramatic.
Now, I'm not going to say he was brainwashed or anything like that and I'm not implying that gay men should be down with tranny vaginas that's entirely not what I'm saying. and I am by no means saying gay societies are all completely evil and brainwashed. I am only talking about the ones relevent to this thread which is the ones that are.
WHAT I AM SAYING in this very long and seemingly irrelevent post is that the person who DIDN'T have a meltdown, wasn't involved in the gay society. He wasn't worried about what he was SUPPOSED to like so he didn't need to be confused or anything and from the things I've read on this forum I think that is a HUGE issue for a lot of gay people and even probably the entirity of society gay, straight, or whatever.
We act a certain way because no matter what group of people you're involved with the majority of that group is somehow telling you what you're supposed to like and avoidance isn't the only solution.
The solution is to just be yourself. You don't have to look like, act, or like anything that you don't. Being gay is being attracted to the same gender. Period. End of story. And yes sexuality is not always strictly defined, some may be primarily attracted to men but now and then a woman is alright. It's not always black and white. And people don't always realize that.
It's easier for people to have rules and stereotypes. It's easier to define people. It's normal, and it's not going away and that's how the brainwashing started. I don't expect people to stop stereotyping others, I do it all the time because it's normal. The difference is I am aware that people don't always fit into stereotypes so I might meet someone and assume them to be a certain way, but that's about it. I don't get shocked when they don't fit in to what I assumed because I'm aware of how unrealistic it is to assume that depending on who you like or what you like or whatever is a summary of everything else about you. That's ridiculous to think but people think it all the time.
If people stoped thinking that then we'd have less those expectations you listed and this issues are not just within the gay community. It's an issue for every single community out there.
Personally I think people are becoming more open than before but I am also recently meeting people who are more open than I thought anyone would be and I find these people because that's who I seek. I'm aware enough of who I am and I decided that I am only going to be me so I don't hang around people who expect anything else. I think a lot of people don't do that because they want to fit in with a certain crowd but I also think a lot of people find a crowd they want to fit in, assume they have to be a certain way to be accepted but don't realize that that crowd would still accept them as who they are.
So I don't think it's just society who makes it harder. I think people make it harder for themselves too. You can find a "perfect" mate by just being yourself and surrounding yourself in the people you truly want to be surrounded in.
Sorry for the super long post. I just felt it necessarily to dig really deep.
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As a gay man, the "gay way of life" or whatever you want to call it doesn't interest me, I will live my life as I choose and the only thing being gay should change is the gender of the person who I will end up with compared to most of those who are around me. Also I find myself attracted to those who don't fit the stereotype of what a lot of gay men (in my opinion) think they want to look like.
It's just hard being a person in this day and age no matter where you're from or what you are. The more that people keep up sheepish mentalities, the more it shall continue. I certainly have more respect for those who can and do think for themselves.
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It's human nature and society that creates these feelings, and unfortunately, people of all genders, sexual preferences, nationalities, etcc...have embraced this mentality. Gay people are people, just like saying that African people are people, and etc....
When talking about in-differences of people there are two different types of persons who feel this way: there are those who literally feel that they are different then others and those that feel that others are different from them.
As a gay man who has been out of the closet for almost 20 years, one easiest things that has helped me feel like I fit into society is by thinking that I am no different then the next man. For obvious reasons, my sexual differences are different and my likes/dislikes may be different, but overall, I am no different then the next straight/gay person. I am not different because I do not feel any different. Sure, over the years I have had to put up with this and that from others that felt as though "I was different" and believe me when I say this, it was very difficult to stand strong and believe what I have believed for almost 20 years now. Does everyone accept me for who I am and what I stand for? I think that we all know the answer to that question, and unfortunately for those that do think that I am different, that is their problem. Do I loose sleep at night knowing that there are people out there that literally fear me? Well, I guarantee I will sleep just fine tonight, tomorrow, and the night after....
I personally do not care what the next person thinks about me, as my true happiness comes from within. In other words, if I am happy with myself then I am happy with my life in general = my happiness.
Scott.
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I like your point of view ObW. But the technology makes it also much easier to find your life partner. Maybe it is not the opportunity, but the genetics?
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"But I also know there some couples out there who have defied all of the BS and been together for years, if not most of their lives. What is thier secret? Why cant they share it with the rest of us?"
"They don't give up. They have sorted out what is really important for them and what is not. What they may not like, but can tolerate. They know that they want to live with that someone and are prepared and willing to work on the problems that are coming up all the time. They accept that Mr. Right has many flaws, just like they have".
You nailed it, Nick. 
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Nick9 Wrote:I like your point of view ObW. But the technology makes it also much easier to find your life partner. Maybe it is not the opportunity, but the genetics?
Completely agree Nick.
Even just rewinding 15/20 years to the days of no internet, no mobile phones (that anyone could afford) no SMS, no email (outside of work perhaps) no smartphone apps, few openly gay bars, Homosexuals still being prosecuted.
The folks on the verge of discovering there sexuality today have never had it so good.......
But the flip side is that I think they will have to work harder to stay monogamous in their relationship. Ive been partnered 8 years, and its f'king hard work sometimes LoL....
Oh to be 21 (again) 
ObW
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OlderButWiser Wrote:Completely agree Nick.
Even just rewinding 15/20 years to the days of no internet, no mobile phones (that anyone could afford) no SMS, no email (outside of work perhaps) no smartphone apps, few openly gay bars, Homosexuals still being prosecuted.
The folks on the verge of discovering there sexuality today have never had it so good.......
But the flip side is that I think they will have to work harder to stay monogamous in their relationship. Ive been partnered 8 years, and its f'king hard work sometimes LoL....
Oh to be 21 (again)
ObW
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Why's it hard work, ObW??? (sometimes)
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I see it more as an incompatibly issue .
It makes no difference if gay or straight, it a people issue.
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Although I AM blown away by all these wonderful views and opinions, I feel some of you have missed the point...or maybe it was my fault in not being clear enough on the question?
I realize just being human has its own problems, and even "straight" people have most of the same problems everyone else does.
The question is meant to address the specific nature of "gay" society, and if you think all the stereotypical BS, lies, and headgames in this specific type of society have detramental effects on people of the same nature, but not majorly living in this specific society.
Sorry if I confused anybody.
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