Bowyn Aerrow Wrote:No I do not know how to determine the difference between a need and a want. I struggle with that for myself. So there is no easy answer there. I think everyone reaches a point in their live when they are faced with this tougher question of what they need Vs what they want and each have different answers.
I have even thought of having a platonic relationship with a man of my age. Yes, there are some older men (30s - 40s) that I would be attracted to that look younger and because they hung around with older people their entire life as I did (at least in my formative years), they will be allot more mature that a "normal" person of their age thus giving us more in common.
I know that a platonic situation would not satisfy my needs in the bedroom and I have always dreamed of the kind of relationship where there was the mutual attraction physically as well as mentally.
I love being around people (men and women) that are older than me, often my decades. They have shown and taught me so much throughout my life...but I would never think of them in a sexual way.
My body (and I imagine most everyone's body) reacts in a physical way toward attraction or lack of attraction with people. I can be intellectually attracted to someone that I would be literally repulsed by sexually to the point that if i were to be forced to have sex with them I could actually vomit.
On the other hand, someone that I am physically attracted to, it is possible that I would have to gag them because I couldn't stand what came out of their mouths.
Finding the balance is really tough. I have tried to "stretch" my interests with a few guys that are nearer my age (and this was back quite some time ago), and I couldn't get out of there fast enough and afterwords, I was sickened by the experience. I was just to "polite" to tell them no from the start so as not to put myself into that situation.
I just don't know what to do and for whatever reason, everything has become critical right now. The part of me that wanted a relationship was quite effectively shut down for a very long time. Now it has raised it's ugly head and I am haven't great difficulties with it. Having no one here to talk to about it that understands makes the situation unbearably hard. Talking on the internet inhere, is sort of helpful, but I feel that I am just another idiot with issues that everyone has and can't cope. I am quite hard on myself in places that I would never be hard on another person. I can accept things another person is dealing with far better than I can accept with things I am dealing with.
I don't think at 52 that I should be having the "teen issues". I have not progressed in that area as I should have. I have never had the patience from another to help me progress through that. The problem is that it needs to be in person and intimate for me to "live" through it and grow. It is not something that I can read in a book or anything like that. It has to be experiential. I can understand it intellectually, but I can't get out of a book or the like what I need in reality.
This has become such an urgent situation and I hate that, because that usually pushes people away...and as much as I know that, I feel what I feel. I am not exaggerating for effect...this is real in my life that I am feeling ever bit of this angst and confusion and unknowing. Part of me says, "just do it" (have sex with someone) and the other part of me wants a meaningful relationship. The loneliness that I feel has been ongoing, but controlled. Now it has gone out of control where I can't get it out of my mind.
I want so badly to feel a man and smell a man and taste a man. I want to feel him inside me...I want a bond with him. It is one of those things that makes me feel that I would be complete if that happened. I have always felt like half of a whole...for my entire life I have felt that way. I have tried to work on that. I because completely self-sufficient where I could do most anything without any help. I have taught myself and have learned many things throughout my life that I can bring to the table. I know how to build a house from the ground up including everything such as plumbing and electrical and carpentry. I can fix things, I can cook and sew. I made sure that I could do most anything that was necessary to live in this world. Now, unfortunately, my body has put a grinding halt to my ability to do allot of the physically demanding things I once could do with ease.
Now, I don't think I can offer what I once could. I am not such a "catch" anymore. With my health issues, I would become a burden to anyone that that might be interested in me.
I can assure you that this isn't just "poor me"...it is very real because I have tried on many occasions to challenge myself and try to do things and I end up having a fibromyalgia attack or an angina attack. these things will stop you in your tracks. My Crohn's Disease will flair up and that too will stop me for a few days. that, unfortunately can and is triggered my anxiety and stress and that is what I am feeling now all of the time. Although I have medications to reduce my stress and anxiety, for them to remove the anxiety tot he level I need it removed, I would have to take so much that I would put myself to sleep. Sleeping one's life away is not fun and not the kind of life I am willing to live.
As the old saying goes..."I am stuck between a rock and a hard place" and I am so deep in this hole now that I can no longer get out by myself. I have always been able to get myself out of messes, but now, I can't and I hate having to rely on other people for help. I used to be the one that helped other people. All of this is making me physically ill, so I will stop here.
Thank you for your ear and sorry I just go on and on...
Steven
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I have read your reply several times today, checking to see if anyone else had an answer.
I guess once again its up to the elves... 
Lets just focus on the 'Older man dating younger men'....
First, those youthful bodies are attached to hearts and brains. If you really need a youthful body to be 'happy' then you are going to have to get to understand how the brains and hearts of guys the age you want who will want and even need a man as old as you works.
No one has said it, so I will. Older man = Daddy, younger man = 'Son' (Boy, Kid, etc).
Dad/Kid relationships are possible, they happen all the time. If both halves of that situation are satisfied and get their needs filled, a 'daddy/son' type relationship is a good one,
But how practical is that for you?
What do you think a younger "kid" be looking for in a 'Daddy'?
Speaking from personal experience because I have always had a thing for guys older than me... I know for myself it is/was an attempt to get something that my father was unable to give me - be it love, pride, encouragement, etc. - my father failed to deliver so I sought that in other men. Older men also gives/gave me a sense of security, stability, the concept of a permanent home, a sense of safety. I preferred older men because frankly I'm no good at taking care of myself - I need someone to watch out for me, someone who would protect me from my very worst enemy - myself. I am dependent by nature, fiercely independent in order to survive. I sought a mentor, a guide, a person who I could lean on all or most of the time. Not physically, but mentally and most importantly emotionally.
I have been in an out of AA and NA rooms, group therapy for various 'issues', and those where gays gather and we talk we find the same sort of list in a majority of 'kids' who are interested in 'older men'. So I am not alone in this attraction and there are reasons for it which are all pretty similar to the ones I have just given with a few slight changes in detail depending on the individual.
Yes there are rarer exceptions where some young kid is attracted to older men without having attending issues. However the reality is that humans are largely hardwired to be attracted to around their own age because that insures the fittest parents for offspring, and Mr. Darwin's Survival of the Fittest still lurks in us gays, even though try as we might we don't have offspring. We still want offspring and our mating rituals and patterns and how we generate attraction is driven by the need to spread our genetic material far and wide and insure the survival of our genes.
Something has to go wrong to push us out of our fittest survival hard-wiring - in this case something has to go wrong to drive a man to seek older instead of their own are or younger. Look at the countless generations, its always the old guy getting the nubile teen age woman-child and no one, until recently, thought anything was wrong with that. Why? Because the younger the woman the higher the chance of survival of the offspring. Men, I fear, are kind of hardwired to seek younger mates because survival of the genes are far more important than anything else.
Unfortunately the whole 'Daddy' thing is a real intellectual turn off, and you are going to find that most 'kids' ain't going to admit to their real interest and why they are attracted to older men. It took about a decade of serious therapy for me to figure out some of my inner workings and figure out why I am attracted to the types of men I am. I didn't like what I discovered and denied. I didn't like it because what the popular images of such relationship never really paint it as something 'nice'.
Then there is the maturity thing. Most "kids" who want a "daddy" are immature emotionally speaking. No we are stunted. We didn't develop fully as children, thus we are interested in finding a surrogate 'father figure'. and have all of these needs which turn us to looking at older men to fill those needs.
How do I know they are immature - oh about 15 years of on and off therapy, oceans of alcohol, tons of meth and many, many AA/NA rooms and other rehab type programs.
Yes there are a few well balanced guys out there who will look for an older man. However the majority who are going to look for a man 20+ years their age - they are going to be broken toys.
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I thank you for your insight. I know what you mean as it is completely logical and I can understand the "needs to be met" issue/s. In my case, there is irony (I believe) at play. Although I didn't have a bad or "missing" father, but my father and his family were never really physical. I got allot of support in allot of ways, but my mother was the one to give allot of the emotional support. I was however...always looking for acceptance and wanting to please. I didn't mature fully as a child for allot of reasons, some obvious and some maybe not so much.
The irony is that I want to be taken care or (at least on certain levels). I know as a very young child, I dreamed of having an older brother to "take care of me and watch over me". When I was post-pubescent, I looked for others of my age to "please", thus gain their acceptance and love. As time went on, my interest in guys stayed with my age group...even into my 30s.
I was still drawn in allot of ways to the "boyish" look as opposed tot he "Marlboro Man" look. At that time, that was still ok and I imagine a pretty natural variance of taste. Some men are "pretty" and others are "masculine" in their looks. My favorite would be a blond/blue, smooth chested guy. I have, of course many variations on that which include dark hair...from slim to well toned bodies. Never got into the true muscle-builder look. If you recall the show, "Queer as Folk"...I found the character, Justin Taylor (Randy Harrison) as being heart meltingly attractive. I didn't like his "street smarts" as it diminished his "innocence" that has always attracted me to younger guys. If you ever watched, "Dancing with the Stars", my favorite is Derek Hough. He is stunning. Both with similar appearances. Like I said, there are variations, but the basic 'theme" is the young innocent, gentle, caring, etc. buy has always been of interest to me. Here is a bit of a twist on the whole thing...the guys that I find most attractive, are the one"s I actually wanted ME to be and look like. I wanted to be the "cutest" one, and have my partner to be definitely cute, but lesser so...more of the boy-next-door type...not as "beautiful". The reason...so that I would not have to worry as much about them finding another and leaving me. I know that represents allot of insecurity within me. I imagine it also plays into my low level of self-esteem that I have had since childhood.
Before my health issues because so acute, I knew I had allot to offer in certain areas. I had the ability and knowledge to build a house from the ground up including electrical and plumbing. I was good at fixing things...I had knowledge of antiques and different kinds or music and the ability to grow a good garden and how to care for animals to the level of some medical issues. There was not many things that I could not do, if I put my mind to it. I was intelligent, loyal, giving, caring. I had an artistic side that i got from my mother. The more technical things, I got from my dad and grandfather.
I did have allot to "bring to the table". I didn't have, however, the self-esteem, the confidence when it came to others in a romantic setting, a true emotional balance. I have always felt like "half of a whole"...for as long as I can remember, I have always been better if I had someone else there either doing a project with me or taking interest in what I was doing. To this day, I feel lacking and only "half of a whole". I have always felt I needed someone to "complete me"...someone to fill in the gaps that I have.
So, you would think that I would want a "daddy" type to take care of me. This leads to the issue of my physical attraction to younger guys. They still have what I don't...looks, and innocence...or at least perceived innocence...an innate lacking of corruption of the world that I now have. As a mature adult (at least in some areas), I can see the the world as it is and not as something that was portrayed in TV shows of the 50s and early 60s...the shows I grew up watching...the shows where they showed the "idyllic family". I of course changed out the wife and children with a husband and dogs.
I have to believe that I have been stunted in my development as far as it pertains to relationships. I know that the relentless harassment and bullying I received as a child from very early on, plays an important role here. To this day, I have an extreme dislike of children. I feel they are evil little devils that are so hateful towards others. They say and do things that are so unbelievably damaging.
Getting back to the "Daddy/Kid" thing. I don't see myself as the "Daddy" type. I don't have the financial security that most "daddys" have. Although I can teach/mentor/ and give love and support and things of that nature, I want/need the love and support and acceptance for myself.
Yes, I like the looks of the young...but especially in today's word, I can't stand to be around allot of young guys because they are SO immature and don't have the experience to let them know that they aren't invincible and that they know it all. I have only run into a very few who are willing to let down their guard and actually listen to older folks and take what they have to give and teach and no think it is a bunch of hooey. Except for a very few, I hated kids of my age when I was young. I liked hanging around with the older folks...my parents, grandparents and great grandparents and their friends. I learned more from them that I could have ever learned if I had hung around with kids my age. I will be eternally grateful to all of those relationships and experiences. I know about things that I wouldn't have known about that happened or were used well before my time. Some my think it odd, but I know how ti use a wringer washer, I know who many of the entertainers were going back into the ninteen-teens. I know what a party-line is and a hand pump at the sink. I know what is was like to have an outhouse when there was no running water and sewer system...keep in mind that I grew in the LA area...not out in the country where that exists today in allot of cases. Do most kids of today know what "Baby-janes" were?..or what pedal-pushers are?..or what a bustle is?..or how to use a button hook?..cooking with iron skillets and how to care for then properly? I know how to iron with a flat iron. You get the idea.
Kids of today know what a cell phone is and how to text and play video games. They don't know how to communicate with other people except with their electronic devices. This will get worse as time goes by and younger generations are introduced to that kind of thing earlier and earlier...but I digress.
So, technically, I want to be to "son" and have a "daddy", but I am not physically attracted to the "daddy" type. I don't want to be with "old-man skin and gray hair and hair growing from places it isn't supposed to be growing from. I don't want a balding man. All of these things are fine for a friend and I don't even really notice them, but if you change the view to one of sexual attraction, the story changes completely.
Just so you all know, I am not trying to down anyone that likes those things I have said that i don't like sexually. There are lots of guys that like the "bear look" and similar. Even though in allot of ways, I look like that and could easily enhance my looks to go into that direction, I am not into that scene.
I will say it for you, so you don't have to..."this guy is f**ked up!". I won't disagree when it comes to my attractions and my emotional needs.
The problem is that I don't know how to "grow up" past this to where I wold be attracted to someone of my own age...with all of the looks and "attributes" that are normal with that age. I don't know how to change what I am attracted to. It would certainly be allot easier and I would certainly have allot more in common with someone my age (or even older). It would be like trying to become straight. Many things would be easier...you would "fit in" with the majority of the world, but I could no more do that that I could walk on the moon.
I have known men that are into VERY young boys (just pre or just post-pubescent) and act as a "daddy figure" to them. When the boy grows up beyond a certain age, it is time for a "new one". I am not interested in kids. Even if it were mutual (and with the guys that I have talked to, it is mutual...although illegal).
My situation is complex...maybe not totally strange, but definitely no the "norm". How do you have a guy that could be literally your child and want them to be the emotional rock?..the one that you look to for emotional support?
Yes, I understand the Daddy/son thing that I now "qualify" as looking like. But if you turn back the clock 30 years, I was interested in the same guys...the only difference is that they also were my age and no one thought of it as anything but normal.
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Then I should take this to mean you flat refuse to be my daddy 
So you have two things here now. Basically you want a son to be a daddy... OK
Put all of that in a shorter 1-2 paragraph phrase and put it in your romance ad. See what nibbles.
While that guy may exist, I have no idea how to conjure him up....Sorry.
Assuming the ad doesn't work...
Which one can you compromise on? Can you compromise a little on being more of a 'daddy' than being a son? You got the height and build for it, you have the experiences and a roof over your head... I assume you can nurture a person... perhaps if you looked at yourself more as the 'daddy' type you could broaden your horizons? More, not completely...
Like I said earlier, I changed my 'type' in order to have something more than nothing. I was rewarded with 14 fairly good, peaceful years. Not perfect, and not exactly what I wanted but better than nothing and better than previous relationships.
I changed my type and changed the type of person I am to suit that type...
No I didn't change completely, I more or less adapted, changing what I could and 'faking it until I make it' with other stuff.
I think you have drawn too many hard lines in the sand. I think you need to figure out which ones you can smudge out of existence and move in order to give you more options.
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Yes, there are things that I could smudge. I do have some "daddy" traits. I am very nurturing and caring an supportive and willing to teach. I used to be completely versatile in the bedroom and as I worried more and more about performance, I gradually changed into a bottom. If I felt comfortable with a person, I would imagine that I could again be versatile and be able to top someone...thus be more of the dom/daddy/??? type.
Allot of my lines in the sand as well as many very strong walls that I constructed masterfully were originally placed to protect me. Unfortunately now they trap me and I did such a good job at building them...making sure there were no "chinks" in them, that I haven't figured out a way to tear them down. It is always easier (and safer) to say NO than it is to say YES. Self Protection...based on being hurt so many times. No, I didn't have abusive relationships...no, I can't say that anyone (except for the nasty old men that took advantage of my naivety and not wanting to offend) took advantage of me with the exception of my 5yo experience of molestation.
I am just so emotionally fragile and inexperienced that I have a great disadvantage. A great percentage of people don't want to deal with and take the time for someone like me when they can easily have a more "well-balanced" person from the start. No one is perfect...I know...everyone has their insecurities...I know, but I wear so much on my sleeve when I do let done some of my defenses that people run away, thus putting another cut in my soul. I am trying my best and doing the best that I can do, but when it comes to relationships, in opening myself up for intimacy, I show my weaknesses and an thus vulnerable...not a trait of a daddy or someone in charge that would/could be of interest to these younger ones that are looking for someone to be strong for them. All of this is an automatic response. I have not been able to control if I am truly interested in the person. The less I care about the person, the easier it is for me to be indifferent and thus be "strong" in appearance. I don't want to not care about the other person...to me that is not a relationship. I am not built to use and throw away people. Some people are...they can do what it takes to get the other person and fulfill their own needs/wants without concern to the other and then dump and go to the next...like those dirty old nasty men that I had the bad experiences with. I am not, nor do I wish to be one of those people.
As far as ads go, I have found that most responses I get are on ads where I don't say very much and what I do say is sexual in nature...like "I am looking for 18-35ish year old slim to fit white guys for fun and maybe more...if you want to know more, contact me". A pretty slutty ad that maybe what my fantasies are, but in reality scare me to death if I were to meet someone that was interested in getting to together for sex. I have had responses to that ad of guys that I would do in a heartbeat (at least I my fantasies), that give me their phone number, their address and email address. I have talked to some of them on the phone. One of which lived only a mile from me. He is 23! I would love to have sex with him (at least in my fantasies), but in reality, I have yet to say "come on over and let's play!" I am still a romantic deep inside and what i really want is mutual caring and nurturing and all of that stuff. I don't think that "hookups" are designed for that.
What I really need is to have my balls cut off and stop my interest in sex. I should give up on the idea of ever being able to have an intimate relationship with a guy. I have tried...my meds for many years have helped that...keeping me basically flat without feelings of those kinds. Unfortunately, this ugly monster has raised it's ugly head yet again and is sending me into a tailspin.
I hate being alone. I hate not having someone to love and who loves me. I have wanted that ever since I can remember and it has never changed...and no I am not talking about a platonic love or a love of friendship.
I can give my love to my dogs (no, not sexual) and I know they love me back unconditionally. I don't worry about being judged. I can hold them in my arms and tell them, "it is ok". I can sleep with them in my bed and be comforted by their presence. I want that from a man...I want to be able to feel that from a man. I have not had that experience...except for very few, very fleeting moments.
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I started a thread to get a good idea of what sites are out there for relationships... http://gayspeak.com/showthread.php?p=263622#post263622 I fear the responses so far paint a terrible picture. I did it anomalously so people wouldn't take my personality into account nor my location thus leaving it as wide open as possible when it comes to responses.
I have my walls too, and like you I have no idea how to bring them down with anything less than a wrecking ball. So I get that whole 'I walled that off for protection' thing.
Those guys you have connected with, have you thought to expose your motivations a little more with them letting them know you are ultimately looking for a relationship?
So far you have listed your downsides and disadvantages. Can you list your upsides and advantages?
Maybe not for us, but for yourself thus you have something to work with that is more positive.
I know it can be hard if you have self-esteem issues. I rarely see my own good qualities and focus on my disadvantages myself. It takes a lot of that taking a fearless inventory of self and a pad of paper and a pen and a lot of time to list those traits I do have which I think may be good.
You are educated, with skills that some people would envy, such as being able to play a keyboard. That 'blunt honesty' isn't always a bad thing, it can be an endearing trait, there are people in the world who need and want such honesty.
So you should also reflect on some of the 'negative' traits you have and try to pain them in a new more positive light.
I fear, my friend, my well of advice is pretty close to dried up. I'm sorry.
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I do have upsides and advantages and I can list many of them. Ironically some of them came by me having to deal with my health issues. It isn't important for me to list them here at this point.
It would take a very special person to be able to become involved with me. It is sort of like the people that can adopt a 3-legged dog or cat or adopt a child with a disabilities. those people are special. they have the ability to see past the disability or malady and love the person or animal as they are without requiring "perfection".
I can see past many things, but there are certain things that I cannot. I consider it a character flaw of mine that as much as I love dogs, I could not adopt a 3-legged dog. If a friend had one, I would give it all of the love and attention that I would give any other, but I could not own one. I think it is sad that I am that way, but I know that about me and so for the dogs and other pets I have and have had, I give them the best life I can give them and the most love I can give them.
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This "sexual desire" of which you all speak, what exactly does it feel like? My inquiry is not for myself, you understand, I have a friend who would be interested to know.
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cardiganwearer,
with all do respect, I do not have any clue of what you are trying to ask....yes, I read the words and yes I understand English, but I am at a complete loss as to what exactly you are needing to know...to what level...why...is it really for a "friend...you know what they say when someone says, "I am asking for a friend"...it usually means them and they are too embarrassed to ask...so it seems suspect to me. Just my take on it. FYI
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