It has been an asteroid's distance to earth since I've been around here, so I decided to crash in for a bit.
Need some advice or at least thoughts. My best friend of 20+ years is a straight female. She has been dating this guy for the last two years. I've never heard her say one positive thing about him. She sure complained a lot.
It took a long time, but she finally revealed that he is a Missionary Baptist and is *extremely* faith oriented. I grew up Southern Baptist, but had distant relatives who were MB's and my family was always scared of them. (My Mom always kept one ankle length dress for when we went to see them as pants or a short skirt were sinful.)
My friend never went to church one time before meeting him.
She also finally told me he has been married and divorced 5 times.
Her parents have met him and he told them to their faces that they were too materialistic and she said he couldn't stop talking about all the $$$ he saw wasted throughout their home for days afterward.
I didn't think it would last, but it has and I see her changing. Actually, I see a whole lot less of her, she doesn't enjoy doing the things we used to do, and sometimes the difference in her is stunning. For instance, she always loved dogs and cats, but now that is quickly fading because he believes human/animal relationships are an abomination to God. (That dog food commercial with the large grey dog greeting his mom who just came back home from military duty, where at the end he lays down on top of her practically covering her up because he's so big, he called that the most vile sexually deviant thing he's ever seen.)
I know at some point, she's going to start seeing me as wrong too, maybe she slowly already is... If puppies and kittens are evil then a gay guy has no chance.
So far I've kept my mouth shut, although it's been hard. I hate to lose her friendship and see her become notch #6 on his little twisted family tree. I just don't know what the right thing to do is.
Do you think I'm doing the right thing by keeping my mouth shut?
She's choosing to stay with him for some reason so you could ask her why she stays when she sounds unhappy but that's all you should do. It's her business why she's with him and changing to stay there and it must be worth it to her to loose friends or she's scared of him. If she's afraid then maybe she'll tell you and let you help her get away from him.
If it were me I'd either talk to her (and pretty much ask her what the hell happened to her) or forget about her, probably the latter. If she were young I'd be more inclined to talk to her and then let her know that when she came to her senses she knew where to find me, but if she were older I think I'd just cut her out of my life without even bothering. I suspect it's a personality disorder of some kind.
The few people I've met who were like that (who seriously morphed their personality to fit in with a man, often a PoS one reflecting their obvious low self-esteem and/or lack of self-respect) were pitiable and going to put their man on a pedestal, and programmed to worship him and gets a rush from defending him against all others as if feeling it proves her worthiness to be loved by shunning & attacking all who love her to be with a man who obviously doesn't (at most he loves an IMAGINARY person that she conforms to as best she can, further proof in her twisted mind that she's worth loving). What can happen is that he does something really stupid or extreme to alienate her in which case (if she's like the ones I've experienced and those I've heard about) she'll do a 180 and make him out to be THE biggest bastard there ever was rather than the most wonderful thing ever, much like this (at least she was young and didn't make this a habit):
If it was me I would sit her down and tell her "I'm only going to tell you this once...." Then list the things that perturb me in her behaviors.
See this works well for me because everyone who knows me knows when I give a lecture its for a pretty damn important reason, and when I say 'I'm only going to tell you this once" that that is what that means.
Ultimately it is her life. Point out what you see as 'wrong' here to her and then let her make her choice. If its a mistake she will figure it out on her own...
I hope that nothing got lost in the translation, but.. wow.
Quote: (...) were pitiable and going to put their man on a pedestal, and programmed to worship him and gets a rush from defending him against all others as if feeling it proves her worthiness to be loved by shunning & attacking all who love her to be with a man who obviously doesn't (at most he loves an IMAGINARY person that she conforms to as best she can, further proof in her twisted mind that she's worth loving)
especially this part is leaving me speechless. So much poison in it...
You seems to forget that some people are almost professionals in intentionally hurting others. They are like salesmen who sell themselves - instead of successfully selling a pool-cleaner to an old lady who even doesn't have a pool.
Sigh, I hope that when I am in troubles, my friends won't be like you...
Quote:but if she were older I think I'd just cut her out of my life without even bothering. I suspect it's a personality disorder of some kind.
:frown:
Sorry, nothing personal, I think you have your background that has taught you to be that way, but it's disturbing to know people think that way.
Actually, yes, I have experienced & observed this, and 2 cases were really bad that left a lot of people hurt. They did not want to be helped, they wanted to us to disappear and let her be with her man, and one even got rid of her beloved dog of many years to be with him, in addition to hurting many people to prove her loyalty, and she radically changed to please him, sacrificing her values and her very being to his expectations.
You make it sound like they want us to help them and not abandon them, but that wasn't the impression I got at all. The impression I got is they no longer cared about us, their obligations, or everything they had believed in and worked toward before falling for their true prince (who more often than not walked all over her and even treated her with near open contempt). Point it out, or the abuse he dished out, and she'd get angry and express anger at such observations and become extremely hostile, no matter how friendly or well-meaning such concerns were made known to her, and these people also avoided and shunned everyone they'd loved before anyway, so I'd think they'd be happy to be left to their very bad choice.
So what would you have done? Deprogramming (one woman I knew was in her 50s, btw, and wouldn't have hesitated to call the cops if she'd been abducted and deprogrammed)? Or what? :confused:
Divorced 5 times, that screams danger to me.
If it were me I would sit her down and talk to her about this , she is changing for him, that is not love.
If he loved her he would accept her for who she is not who he can change her into.
I feel that your friend is getting herself into an abusive relationship , where he is king, the warning signs are already there , he is already taking away anything lovable
from her life so she can depend only on him.
That is typical of an abuser.
If you do talk to her , let her know no matter what you will always be there for her.
what you has said about your friend is obviously not something that would make most people feel conformable in her current relationship/choices.
I think you should ask her, what is it that is causing this shift in her behavior, away from the person you used to know. Don't be judgmental when you ask .Then really listen to what she has to say with an open mind. I don't expect that you will like/embrace what she has to say, but it may give you a better handle on what going on insider her head.
This guy is good at what he does, and I'm afraid that no amount of admonishment from you will change the picture at present. Confrontation will probably do more harm than good.
Since she has been your best friend for 20+ then you need have her back even if she does not know it.
I do urge you to say in her life and to be ready to step in when/if she "returns", she will need an truly understating friend to help her find her way back.
Thank you all for your thoughts, after reading them I came up with the idea of maybe suggesting we head down to this animal shelter we used to go to several times a year to donate supplies. Technically that's just helping God's creatures, I think, not having a relationship, but I'm guessing she will grimace at the idea and maybe give me an opening to just ask why she's changed herself so much.
Rainbowmum, you suggested danger with the number of marriages. That has been at the back of my mind too. My thinking is one or two failed marriages you can blame on the other person, but 3 or more, I think the person with the problem becomes quite clear and obviously it's not fixable. From what she said though, he was able relate the problem each woman had and that he was just looking for love all along which he finally found. <gag>
The other thing in that area that worried me is that he always converses with her in simple platitudes. "You're the kind of woman who makes a man glad he was born a man" is how he speaks to her at all times, even in front of her family. Her birthday card was handwritten inside, "You're a fine woman." Didn't use her name or even say Happy Birthday, just those 4 words and his name. There's nothing personal about the way he communicates with her and I heard once that that could be a danger sign too.
Anyway, thank you for all your thoughts, being my best friend I'm just not ready to give up on her yet and want to see her happy. I do realize at some point that may happen, though.
One of my best friends is gay & although I'm not married to a Missionary Baptist, I do consider myself a Christain. With that said, there is nothing my friend could do that would make me love him less. I would never think of him as evil either, he's actually one of the best people I've ever known. I hope it turns out well for you.
![[-]](https://gayspeak.com/images/duende_v3_local/collapse.png)
