Myth of Religion

[spotysocks]

Doubting religions or being skeptical about the whole thing in not anything new, seems that a good percentage of the people today try to reason on religion and explain things with science. This somehow makes sense, when Science was not developed enough people used the existence of God to explain some natural phenomena that couldnt give an explanation without.

This video explains the birth of Jesus using astronomy and compares Gods from the past which i think is interesting. Let's see what you make of it. mile:

[marshlander]

I saw this video a while ago and there is certainly lots to catch the interest.

Having been brought up in a religious family that accepted without question some of the most preposterous ideas imaginable, it took me a while to lose that baggage. In many ways that was my first coming out at the age of 25 and what a kerfuffle that caused :eek: I finally got round to coming out as a gay man during a later period when I was also in counselling. What shocked me most was how much of that religious upbringing I still carried around with me.

Last year I finally got round to reading "The God Delusion" by Richard Dawkins and felt that at last I had discovered someone who was able to articulate what I felt about religion, but had previously not been able to express in any coherent way. I'd recommend it as a thought provoking read, even to believers. If their faith comes from a well-meaning place they need not fear challenge. The most aggressive believers in my experience seem to be those who fear either thinking for themselves or taking responsibility for their own actions. I guess life is harder when one doesn't have a god to blame for the way one behaves. Of course there are many people of faith who are the kindest and most caring people, but these are the people who allow the soldiers in. Having a religious allegiance is not a pre-requisite to being a good person.

There have been a number of great thinkers over the years who have eschewed religion, but somehow the vested interests of superstition and religion still hold great influence and power. I am interested in the ways other people think and behave, but am most uncomfortable whenever I encounter the fundamentalist ... or even just a missionary

The earth orbits the sun.

Amen

[HopSkipJump]

I guess it's undeniable that religion is a myth, but it worries me - especially with fellows like Dawkins - what we're using to replace it. Science? It's not all that much better.

[marshlander]

I guess it's undeniable that religion is a myth, but it worries me - especially with fellows like Dawkins - what we're using to replace it. Science? It's not all that much better.

I'm not sure what you are getting at. You seem to be suggesting that there is a problem with facts verifiable by research, observation and evidence. Are you seriously suggesting that evidence-based enlightenment, which is by definition dynamic, is little better than the prejudice and superstition of the desert nomads of thousands of years ago that informs most religious doctrine? I don't buy that at all.

What may be at fault is the moral code and the legal systems we design for ourselves, which may indeed be informed to some extent by scientific knowledge. However, odd things happen because there is a huge pull from reactionary religious forces. The continuing persecution and ostracism of glbt individuals and communities is certainly not the result of conclusions drawn from modern scientific evidence.

Rational thought and personal responsibility versus the fear of an entity that doesn't exist, but whose "will" is/was revealed through a few trusted servants as a basis for building fair societies ... that there is even a question just seems odd to me.

What we are not discussing is the establishment of core values or rights, such as those enshrined in human rights legislation and some constitutions. Values such as compassion and tolerance only work to the extent to which they are universal. They depend on us being able to look outside the closed worlds of religion and culture.

[sudanese]

finally a debate of the type i like

i would like just to think loudly rather than giving a sharp opinion

1- about the video ... i enjoyed it the same way i enjoy sci- fi . ... i mean this is a sly pseudo history

for example how can we link the roman December to Death , i think in Latin language death is related to the word MORT !... don't know


i don't have definitive standpoint in Faith debate , i prefer to deal with different components of this issue separately : Existence , Moral codes , Explanation of ( supernaturals ) phenomena , and religious history .....
but religious TEXTs are usually totalistic and ask for ( take it all ).


i prefer my own version to that in the video :biggrin:
( no offense is intended and no misunderstanding please , moreover even me don't believe 100% in my own story )



every civilization got its own means of production, its own art and its own moral codes ... pheroes linked art to religion ... and Semites chose to link religion to moral codes .......

it seems that pheroes liked imagination and glory ... impressed by their nature ... and people of the middle east took some of their neighbours legend s ( e.g.Noah arc from Babylonian's ) and tried to mix them with their community suffers ... where u can see in the Torah cheating prophets and a fooled god.. the new ONE god ... who told them that the middle east is the origin of man kind ... ... and an obvious self- centered view of the world can be seen , just like in any other civilization


my undoubted believe is that prophets are social reformists in a way or another , though people cant completely escape the relativities of their time and place .. even if they are prophets ...

jesus wanted to cancel what he saw as irrelevant ... but he couldnt challenge the whole belief system ... so he had to keep the old testament
probably there were a lot of Christs , but history favoured only one !

Arabs chose to build on what reached their ears .. it was a brave gamble made by Mohammad to import an unpopular belief system to the arabic peninsula... though arabs say Abraham is their grandfather.

Editing here was in another way ... Christians falsified bible ... as did the jews ... and Quran is complementary to the true religion... and Mohammad is the last prophet ... he had closed the door and took the key with him ....

but i wonder why the semitic god didn't send prophets or even mentioned Native americans and people of Maya .... and why he menaced my grandfathers in KUSH ?:biggrin:

one thing i like in Asian gods is that they are neutral during the times of war , or at least they didn't say to their people u are the best in the world mile: thevery upstage Kreshna and Buddha. unlike Greek gods who were involved in every trouble in the city :eek:

[Rychard the Lionheart]

If you believe in God creating us and the universe, does this mean that God came from another space?

If God was always there, what was he doing before the creation of our world?

If God created humans in his image, is he a human being or another live form which evolved from Man?

Who created God, Man?

If God does not beleive in a god, is he an atheist?

Was there any witnesses to Moses and the burning bush, and the ten commandments? (I believe we have only Moses word on these events).

They are many hundreds of questions regarding religon, these are just a tiny few I can think of at the present moment.

I do not want to stop anyone from believing in their faith that is their own decision. But as an atheist these are some of the questions which I find the church has trouble in giving a reasonable answer to them.

I think I have already booked my place in hell, if it exists.

[Either-Or]

If you believe in God creating us and the universe, does this mean that God came from another space?

If God was always there, what was he doing before the creation of our world?

If God created humans in his image, is he a human being or another live form which evolved from Man?

Who created God, Man?

If God does not beleive in a god, is he an atheist?

Was there any witnesses to Moses and the burning bush, and the ten commandments? (I believe we have only Moses word on these events).

They are many hundreds of questions regarding religon, these are just a tiny few I can think of at the present moment.

I do not want to stop anyone from believing in their faith that is their own decision. But as an atheist these are some of the questions which I find the church has trouble in giving a reasonable answer to them.

I think I have already booked my place in hell, if it exists.

I kept hitting multi so I could answer the question with the answer below the question, but it didn't respond for me.(idk what the problem with it was)

Firstly I have to say with any religion, it is faith based so answers I give can't help but look subjective. Also, I would like to say, why is it that with atheists (from what I have seen) only or most oftenly choose to question christianity? Why not Hindu, Muslim, Buddah, or others. Another thing is I don't believe that mormons(or the latter day saints, whichever they are called now) Catholics, Methodist, Luthern, Baptist, etc.etc. should all be all put under the label of "Christain"-they are way too different. I grew up being taken to a baptist church so answers are based on what I was taught in there, not necessarily my beliefs, but I do keep a lot of the morals. That aside now---

1. I'm not sure if generally all "Christains" believe this but at the church they believe that God exists outside of time and space.

2. He simply exsisted before, they say he was bored or something so he created man, for his enjoyment.

3-4. Same as believing that he exists outside time and space, they believe that he has always exsisted, and that we are created in his image, i.e have a soul, and a body.

5. This one is sort of weird but, I suppose they would say that God would not believe in another god, it would go against his commandments "You shall have no other gods before me." but I guess depending on how you interpt that question, everyone believes in themselves (or should) so therefore God could believe in himself.

6. *have to keep from laughing from saying this* I can't suffiecently answer your burning bush question, other then to say that its a part of the faith as Moses was the author of that bible story.

Im really not all that religious myself, I just know a bit about what some people believe/what I heard.

[Rychard the Lionheart]

Either-Or.

Thanks for the answers you have given, interesting points raised.

Will have look at other faiths, but most believe in one God (the same God). But still squabble like children over who is right.

[Either-Or]

Welcome......and another thing....a lot of people who claim to be athiest like to use the "if God is all powerful then can he make a rock so heavy that he couldn't lift it" and if he can then he cant exsist because he failed to lift it and if he cant can not exsist because he failed to make it. Nevermind the part of whether he is all powerful or not, the statment isn't logical---and thats all for tonight. It has gotten too late.

[marshlander]

......and another thing....a lot of people who claim to be athiest like to use the "if God is all powerful then can he make a rock so heavy that he couldn't lift it" and if he can then he cant exsist because he failed to lift it and if he cant can not exsist because he failed to make it. ...

What?! Must admit I've never come across this as an argument It sounds more like a philosopher's game than an argument.

I fall down at the first hurdle. I just find it difficult to accept the word of someone whose existence has never been proven; whose words have never been heard, but have only ever been "recorded" by people like you and me; whose likes and dislikes strangely match the prejudices of these storytellers.

I find that rational argument and empirical evidence make more sense to me than blind belief.