Gay Republicans: Why are they persona non grata in the gay community?

[xboxfan34]

"Persona non grata" means "unwelcome person." and I do feel like the gay community is very cold and harsh twoards people that happen to be gay and have republican views when it comes to politics. Why is that? Gay republicans are human beings like the rest of us and we should not make it a "us vs them" situation and treat them with the same respect that we treat other gay people.

[ThatRobGuy]

Probably because the party makes it a point to be socially conservative to the point of discrimination, at least these days.

If you want an abortion, you're a bad person. If you're not born in the U.S., you're a bad person. If you're gay, we're not going to come out and say you're a bad person, but you certainly aren't good enough to have "straight" things like marriage or partnership benefits.

I will say that I think there is a disconnect between Republicans and Republican politicians, as with Democrats. I think many more Republicans are more socially liberal than the Republican politicians will lead you to believe. We just never get to hear about it.

[Pix]

Why is that?

NOTE: I don't have a problem with moderate Republican positions, and I'm usually comfortable with various libertarian positions as well (whether or not I actually agree with them). I also liked the idea of GOProud and Log Cabin Republicans trying to make the Republican Party gay inclusive because it would both ease up on the problems of our community AND politicians would be more compelled to keep their promises to us knowing full well we'll vote for them again anyway as Democrats frequently do (that is they promise to be our friend but have zero respect for us).

That said:

Unfortunately, that's not what members (at least of the bureaucracy) of Log Cabin and GOProud have generally been doing, at least not in the last few years. Instead of fighting for gay rights from a conservative perspective, they’re just drinking the kool aid now. They believe FOX News (which has argued openly in court it has the right to lie and was thus in their rights to fire reporters who refused to do so and won) and gave the most insane reasons that had no basis in reality, like saying Obama is after our guns despite he’s been one of the most friendly POTUS to gun owners who not only tolerated people carrying guns to where he was speaking and waving signs about watering the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants (contrast with Bush & Rice who had protesters jailed simply for showing up with shirts criticizing them or the war in Iraq) and even undid the ban that “guns for everyone” Ronald Reagan so that gun owners allowed to carry could carry them into national forests.

Another one is that Obama took his so-called “Obama care” from a conservative think tank and was promoted as an alternative to Canadian UHC and “Hillarycare” and passed by such Republicans as Romney before Obama ran with it…but show them where Romney passed it first and they’re still saying “Have to vote for Romney to end Obamacare or America is doomed.” Like WTF? I’ve heard of brain scans that show people with strong political feelings (not just Republicans) actually experience pleasure ignoring inconvenient facts so that it was hard to have a rational debate with them but that’s just frightening, like seeing people under a magic spell that hijacks their free will. That’s downright cultish.

And GOProud officially endorsed Romney despite that he not only promoted much the same thing as Obama, his only real difference of note is that he openly said he would continue is to bash gays as he did as governor…and even if Romney pulled another flip flop his VP Ryan was a Gilead-style fundie who was very clear in his effort to destroy all gains made by gays (while his economic policies were similar in many ways to Romney, and even Obama, in industrial bailouts, etc). So there’s little ACTUAL difference between them SAVE Obama is the best POTUS the gay community has ever had (much to my surprise) while the others was saying they weren’t just going to ignore gay rights they were going to actively reverse each and every gain.

Despite this I MIGHT give the GOProud the benefit of a doubt IF they harped on their antigay crusade and demanded the letters condemning it to pour in (“I’m a Republican, but if you want my vote, stop bashing gays”, not to mention trying to shame the Republican candidates for accepting support of evangelicals who get “kill the gays” bills passed in Africa (showing what they ultimately want to happen here, and obviously believe the Republican Party is their best way to Gilead, Gilead being a dystopian Christian theocracy featured in The Handmaid's Tale). But they don’t, so they lost my benefit of a doubt.

At best, GOProud are suffering something similar as a battered woman who excuses her abuser even as he threatens to kill her (and how it’s all her fault), and at worst they’re an intentional front to get gays on their side (like getting turkeys to vote for Thanksgiving), and don’t put that past them, major Republican politicians were busted when a memo came out showing their secret support of exploiting the religious conservative backgrounds of many blacks and Latinos to vote against gays. Heck, one person posting on Qeerty pretending to be gay and not a Republican but trying to sew discord towards Obama turned out to be a Republican college student (I forget how he was exposed, but somehow his FB page got revealed).

And here's the real irony: I'm friends with a handful of moderate Republicans who are heterosexual and they themselves said they hated how the Republican Party became much more fundamentalist Christian as of 2009, and after winning many seats (falsely promising jobs which gained them the Independent vote) they immediately began an all out attack on gays & women. The heterosexual Republicans I personally know were sick of that, fondly remembered when the fundies were just a radical fringe rather than the base with hostility towards gays & women more simmering on a back burner rather than their primary objective, and as a result they refused to support Republicans in 2012 until the Party gave up the war on women & gays and returned to things like economics and national defense (and I've also seen plenty of Republicans online say the same thing). So if HETEROSEXUAL Republicans can see how bad the Party has become for gays then why can't groups like GOProud? :confused:

Again, it's not the other beliefs, it's the gay (and women) bashing of the party, and when gays themselves take part in that bashing (even when some heterosexuals DON'T) then they're not only enemies of the gay community (for the gay bashing, not the other issues regarding guns, taxes, national defense, free enterprise, etc), and rightly treated as such (and it's base hypocrisy to demand tolerance when they refuse to give any themselves and actively fight to legislate intolerance), but they're quislings to boot. And, at least for people like me, THAT'S why.

[Genersis]

"Persona non grata" means "unwelcome person." and I do feel like the gay community is very cold and harsh twoards people that happen to be gay and have republican views when it comes to politics. Why is that? Gay republicans are human beings like the rest of us and we should not make it a "us vs them" situation and treat them with the same respect that we treat other gay people.

Well I try my best not to fall into the "US Vs Them" mentality; while I still respect the person, I am still a little miffed by people who vote for people against a lot of things I value, including equality.
I find this could be said of anyone who votes for socially conservative parties, not just homosexual Republican voters.

I know some people hate interracial marriage comparisons, but I do think this is similar to complaining about being treated harshly by interracial couples for voting for parties against recognition of their relationships.
Isn't it something to expected to some degree?
Yes, it's obviously wrong to make you feel unwelcome to the point of feeling dehumanised, but I'm not exactly sure you should be expecting to be accepted with open arms by people with same-sex attractions either.

[Genersis]

NOTE: I don't have a problem with moderate Republican positions, and I'm usually comfortable with various libertarian positions as well (whether or not I actually agree with them). I also liked the idea of GOProud and Log Cabin Republicans trying to make the Republican Party gay inclusive because it would both ease up on the problems of our community AND politicians would be more compelled to keep their promises to us knowing full well we'll vote for them again anyway as Democrats frequently do (that is they promise to be our friend but have zero respect for us).

That said:

Unfortunately, that's not what members (at least of the bureaucracy) of Log Cabin and GOProud have generally been doing, at least not in the last few years. Instead of fighting for gay rights from a conservative perspective, they’re just drinking the kool aid now. They believe FOX News (which has argued openly in court it has the right to lie and was thus in their rights to fire reporters who refused to do so and won) and gave the most insane reasons that had no basis in reality, like saying Obama is after our guns despite he’s been one of the most friendly POTUS to gun owners who not only tolerated people carrying guns to where he was speaking and waving signs about watering the tree of liberty with the blood of tyrants (contrast with Bush & Rice who had protesters jailed simply for showing up with shirts criticizing them or the war in Iraq) and even undid the ban that “guns for everyone” Ronald Reagan so that gun owners allowed to carry could carry them into national forests.

Another one is that Obama took his so-called “Obama care” from a conservative think tank and was promoted as an alternative to Canadian UHC and “Hillarycare” and passed by such Republicans as Romney before Obama ran with it…but show them where Romney passed it first and they’re still saying “Have to vote for Romney to end Obamacare or America is doomed.” Like WTF? I’ve heard of brain scans that show people with strong political feelings (not just Republicans) actually experience pleasure ignoring inconvenient facts so that it was hard to have a rational debate with them but that’s just frightening, like seeing people under a magic spell that hijacks their free will. That’s downright cultish.

And GOProud officially endorsed Romney despite that he not only promoted much the same thing as Obama, his only real difference of note is that he openly said he would continue is to bash gays as he did as governor…and even if Romney pulled another flip flop his VP Ryan was a Gilead-style fundie who was very clear in his effort to destroy all gains made by gays (while his economic policies were similar in many ways to Romney, and even Obama, in industrial bailouts, etc). So there’s little ACTUAL difference between them SAVE Obama is the best POTUS the gay community has ever had (much to my surprise) while the others was saying they weren’t just going to ignore gay rights they were going to actively reverse each and every gain.

Despite this I MIGHT give the GOProud the benefit of a doubt IF they harped on their antigay crusade and demanded the letters condemning it to pour in (“I’m a Republican, but if you want my vote, stop bashing gays”), not to mention trying to shame the Republican candidates for accepting support of evangelicals who get “kill the gays” bills passed in Africa (showing what they ultimately want to happen here, and obviously believe the Republican Party is their best way to Gilead, Gilead being a dystopian Christian theocracy featured in The Handmaid's Tale). But they don’t, so they lost my benefit of a doubt.

At best, GOProud are suffering something similar as a battered woman who excuses her abuser even as he threatens to kill her (and how it’s all her fault), and at worst they’re an intentional front to get gays on their side (like getting turkeys to vote for Thanksgiving), and don’t put that past them, major Republican politicians were busted when a memo came out showing their secret support of exploiting the religious conservative backgrounds of many blacks and Latinos to vote against gays. Heck, one person posting on Qeerty pretending to be gay and not a Republican but trying to sew discord towards Obama turned out to be a Republican college student (I forget how he was exposed, but somehow his FB page got revealed).

And here's the real irony: I'm friends with a handful of moderate Republicans who are heterosexual and they themselves said they hated how the Republican Party became much more fundamentalist Christian as of 2009, and after winning many seats (falsely promising jobs which gained them the Independent vote) they immediately began an all out attack on gays & women. The heterosexual Republicans I personally know were sick of that, fondly remembered when the fundies were just a radical fringe rather than the base with hostility towards gays & women more simmering on a back burner rather than their primary objective, and as a result they refused to support Republicans in 2012 until the Party gave up the war on women & gays and returned to things like economics and national defense (and I've also seen plenty of Republicans online say the same thing). So if HETEROSEXUAL Republicans can see how bad the Party has become for gays then why can't groups like GOProud? :confused:

Again, it's not the other beliefs, it's the gay (and women) bashing of the party, and when gays themselves take part in that bashing (even when some heterosexuals DON'T) then they're not only enemies of the gay community (for the gay bashing, not the other issues regarding guns, taxes, national defense, free enterprise, etc), and rightly treated as such (and it's base hypocrisy to demand tolerance when they refuse to give any themselves and actively fight to legislate intolerance), but they're quislings to boot. And, at least for people like me, THAT'S why.

Or...you know. Some homosexuals don't feel like they should have the rights and protections other parties seek, for whatever reasons.
It's not all hypocrisy, or that battered wife malarkey.

Also, try and stay away from the word "enemies" and "quislings" when referring to people who have differing views and approaches to politics. It does no one favours.

[Pix]

Or...you know. Some homosexuals don't feel like they should have the rights and protections other parties seek, for whatever reasons.
It's not all hypocrisy, or that battered wife malarkey.

Also, try and stay away from the word "enemies" and "quislings" when referring to people who have differing views and approaches to politics. It does no one favours.

If they accept the support of evangelicals, and the politicians they support, who get "kill the gays" bills passed in Africa while working against us here at home (as much as they can until they can get "kill the gays" bills passed in America as well) then they ARE enemies. And if they claim to be members of our community while supporting these enemies to oppress, and perhaps even ultimately kill, us then they ARE quislings.

It does no favors to anyone to deny evil. This isn't a "different approach to politics" (are you being dishonest saying that I'm against all Republicans when I'm ONLY against the bigots who turn on us or did you just skim what I posted and thus fail to comprehend what I said?) this is antigay bigotry at best. I will continue to call them quislings no matter how much you object to me calling a spade a spade.

[Genersis]

If they accept the support of evangelicals, and the politicians they support, who get "kill the gays" bills passed in Africa while working against us here at home then they ARE enemies. And if they claim to be members of our community while supporting these enemies to oppress, and perhaps even ultimately kill, us then they ARE quislings.

It does no favors to anyone to deny evil. This isn't a "different approach to politics" (are you being dishonest saying this is what I'm doing or did you just skim what I posted?) this is antigay bigotry at best. I will continue to call them quislings no matter how much you object to me calling a spade a spade.

How much of the Republican party do you think is for killing gays Pix?
Let say a generous 20%.
How many Republican voters vote for them because of such, or in indifference to such? I'd say most would vote in spite of(or even unaware of) such, and probably much lower than 20%.
Thinking of kill the gays sentiment as being a notable part of the Republican party, now, or in the immediate future, is a ludicrous idea, let alone that people vote for them are ok with such.

Why is having qualms with lumping homosexuals who vote Republican with murderous evangelicals or abused spouses thought of as ignoring evil? Why is voting Republican a reason to brand someone as evil?

[pellaz]

at the state level here ( Colorado ) the Democrats have gained the majority in both the Senate and House along with a popular Democratic Governor John Hickenlooper. Some say he has national potential. Since the last November elections lots of progress has been make in only a few months and i would like to see this on a national level:
-(3) gun control bills have passed
...limit to like 15 rounds
...applicants pay for their own background ck
...background ck's are enforced for all gun transactions
-SS domestic partnership bill gets singed today
-They are debating eliminating the death penalty
-Improved drug laws for the marijuana

I am disgusted by the republican govern by fear concept and pretend morals. Yes its a two party system but the republicans are soooo expensive to keep around. Next time we need a war we can get them back, that is if we need a good generation killing and not looking for a big W.

reference:
former beloved mayor of Denver and new excellent Democrat governor elect:

[Bowyn Aerrow]

It is odd to join forces with the 'enemy'. Republicans have long been opposed to 'Gay Rights'. Thus the immediate thought that comes to mind is that if you are gay and a republican you are against yourself.

{humor} Personally I am an equal opportunity hater, I hate liberals and conservatives equally.

I am an extremist moderate and one day, maybe, we will rise up and take semi-strong stance opposing liberals and conservatives. {/humor}

[Pix]

How much of the Republican party do you think is for killing gays Pix?
Let say a generous 20%.
How many Republican voters vote for them because of such, or in indifference to such? I'd say most would vote in spite of(or even unaware of) such, and probably much lower than 20%.
Thinking of kill the gays sentiment as being a notable part of the Republican party, now, or in the immediate future, is a ludicrous idea, let alone that people vote for them are ok with such.

Why is having qualms with lumping homosexuals who vote Republican with murderous evangelicals or abused spouses thought of as ignoring evil? Why is voting Republican a reason to brand someone as evil?

GOProud keep endorsing candidates like Ryan who have made it clear they're our enemies and fraternize with those who are openly more so which strongly suggests that he'd go a lot further than merely reversing our progresss if he could. They don't condemn this antigay either, they just say "vote Ryan." Now if there were other significant differences then maybe I could see it, but for the most part those differences touted simply are not so. For example, GOProud says Romney must save us from Obamacare (and that's more important than gay rights), however Romney passed Obamacare in his own state before Obama passed it for the country, and Obamacare was actually created by conservatives. Back when Romney was competing to be the choice for POTUS even other Republicans pointed this out and said Americans couldn't depend on Romney to save us from Obamacare, but once Romney got the nod then many Republicans magically forgot it and started saying he'd save us from Obamacare rather than he ran with Obamacare first. As I said, that's scary even without the gay bashing. When you throw in that one of the few actual and tangible differences is how hostile he is to gays then it becomes deeply disturbing when gays collaborate with him when there is no reason to beyond tribal loyalty to the party.

AS I SAID those Republicans who don't do that are different, and given that there are heterosexuals who can see see what I just shared her and reject the homophobia when even GOProud does not,then GOProud is without excuse. Jerry Sanders and Gary Johnson (who was Republican until recently) are ok as they don't bash gays or work with those who do (and thus don't have the support of those who want us dead). I can even accept Ron Paul (and gays who vote for him) because despite his not liking gays he doesn't believe the federal government should hold us down. When gay Republicans also make it clear they're going to withhold their support (for example, "Dear, Romney, abandon your antigay platform or I'm voting Ron Paul") until the politicians stop catering to those who want us dead then that's ok, too. It's even ok if they don't want equality for themselves (but to support their harming the rest of us is another matter, that's like a woman may not wish to vote, that's her prerogative, but to then promote candidates actively trying to strip us of our right to vote would be another matter completely). However, collaborating with those who want us oppressed or worse without tangible opposition to that policy (beyond worthless lip service) is NOT ok. And they may even despise the antigay part deep down, but if they collaborate despite that then they are still collaborators (ie, quislings).