Straight Male Looking For Advice

[whtmale11]

Hello,

I am a straight male. I am very political minded and with all of the recent gay issues in the news, I have noticed that my views are not always on the pro-gay side. Not on all issues, though. I’m the “support civil unions, oppose gay marriage,” type.

My girlfriend and I discuss gay issues occasionally, and we have different positions. Although none of my opinions actually have anything to do with gay people, my girlfriend (who has had many gay friends throughout her life) insists that I have these views because I do not know any gay people.

I grew up in a very middle class neighborhood and have never really known a gay person. What I know about gay people, I learned through the media or talking with straight people. I hear a lot about gay people, and read articles written by gay people, but have never had a discussion with a gay person (sorry if all the “gay” this and that language is offensive, I mean no harm. I see it in the media so I presume it is accepted in the gay community).

Although I do not think that my views have anything to do with gay people, I will not count out that maybe I see things differently because I don’t know any gay people. Before taking a position on an issue, I try to have the full picture to avoid making narrow minded decisions.

I tried to do some research online, visiting gay-focused websites to see if I could get some insight. Instead, I found a bunch of articles making conclusory statements that anyone who disagreed with the gay community on any gay issue is simply a bigot, without providing any meaningful explanation. I do not think I am a bigot, so these articles did nothing but validate my views to myself because of the lack of any type of real explanation.

Thus, here is my problem: I don’t want to have a narrow minded opinion on gay issues, and realize that if I could discuss gay issues with a gay person (something I have never done before), maybe my views would be different.

The problem is that, at least from what I see, anyone who disagrees with the gay community on a gay issue is labeled as a bigot by the gay community. I think if I could talk to a gay person about gay issues without them judging me, I might have a different perspective. Even though such a conversation may not change my view at all, I am open to trying to understand everyone’s view.

I go to graduate school and know a girl who I am friendly with. She is a lesbian and is open about it (she told me the first time we hung out). I think of all people she might not immediately judge me for my views, and would engage in a mature, educated conversation.

I do not know if it would be awkward/offensive to ask her to talk so I can gain a better understanding. Even if she agreed, I don’t know if she would be offended or label me a bigot for my views. The gay community doesn’t seem too understanding of opposing views, even when such views are not based on hate and have nothing to do with gay people. If there is a chance she would get offended, I would rather not risk a friendship over such a request.

On the other hand, we are graduating soon and I fear if I do not ask her to talk, I will never have the opportunity to engage in the conversation with someone who is gay and won’t immediately judge me before I can explain.

I would greatly appreciate any advice on (1) whether it would be appropriate/offensive to ask her to talk and (2) whether she would label me a bigot or be offended if some of my views on gay issues differed from her views.

Thanks.

[cardiganwearer]

I'm not sure you really get the idea of gay community. For most things there isn't one. Gay people show as much variation in attitude as any other group you care to identify. As to your lesbian friend, just because she's part of the gay community doesn't mean that any other member of that community knows how she'll behave or what she'll think. Being gay is not like being a communist, we don't take secret orders from the Kremlin; there is no Gay Central that issues the party line. In an ideal world there wouldn't be a gay community, just a community.

I sympathise with your problem, and your heart's clearly in the right place. I suspect you see gay people as 'other' because you don't know many gay people and at the same time you don't want to make a fool of yourself with one gay person you do know. Not an easy situation and it's hard to help because we don't know your lesbian friend. You've come in here and shown yourself to be inquisitive and non-judgmental, which makes you my new best friend (don't get your hopes up, these things are always fleeting), so you're in with a sporting chance if only because most people like those attitudes.

If you want to ask her stuff, go ahead and try it. Her response will depend a lot more on who she is than any gay thing. If she has a go at you it would be unfair to lay that at the door of the gay community. If she's friendly, helpful and informative, do come back and tell us because we'd love to claim credit for it.

My pronouncements on this board and elsewhere are like those of an inverted Cassandra, usually wrong. Best see what everyone else has to say before deciding.

[posterpicture]

I think it 's not only the gay community but all community. We tend to not accept what is opposite of to our belief regardless of the reasoning behind.
Gay community see gay rights as their fundamental rights so of course they spike up when people have different opinion from them.
It takes a lot to accept other people and gay people are trying to learn that too.
Even as a gay man, I have been judged several times by gay community to not being gay the "right way".

My only advice is, if someone truly your friend and has a personal connection with you then don't be afraid to share your opinion regardless of the outcome

[SolemnBoy]

Don't worry, none of that was very offensive. The political correctness trend has gained such a strong following that things people say are poorly translated.

I'm opposed to gay marriage = homophobe
I'm opposed to unrestricted immigration = racist
I don't like what modern feminism has become = misogynist

This is obviously not how it works but too many people are completely unable to handle a mature debate. I understand that the gay lifestyle is something you don't understand but like other people have said, there really isn't one. There are stereotypes, oh yes, but then again there are stereotypes for more or less everything. Whether your lesbian friend will be offended or not depends on how she is as a person. I highly doubt she'd be upset (since all you want is to understand more) but if she's the timid type it might make her a little uncomfortable. I personally wouldn't mind such a conversation at all.

Good luck!

[partisan]

Hello there, I think cardigan wearer made the point, i do not see or feel a part of a gay community, except this little one here, i think saying you want to speak to a gay person to get a better understanding of the Gay community is fruitless, for we are as wide and varied as the rest.
Though maybe these issues differ from place to place

Like from Kent to San Francisco for instance

Anyway welcome to the forum :-) I hope you will find it usefull.

[dfiant]

Hello,

I am a WHITE male. I am very political minded and with all of the recent BLACK issues in the news, I have noticed that my views are not always on the pro-BLACK side. Not on all issues, though. I’m the “support BLACK unions, oppose BLACK marriage,” type.

My girlfriend and I discussBLACK issues occasionally, and we have different positions. Although none of my opinions actually have anything to do with BLACK people, my girlfriend (who has had many BLACK friends throughout her life) insists that I have these views because I do not know any BLACK people.

I grew up in a very middle class neighborhood and have never really known a BLACK person. What I know about BLACK people, I learned through the media or talking with WHITE people. I hear a lot about BLACK people, and read articles written by BLACK people, but have never had a discussion with a BLACK person (sorry if all the “BLACK” this and that language is offensive, I mean no harm. I see it in the media so I presume it is accepted in the BLACK community).

Although I do not think that my views have anything to do with BLACK people, I will not count out that maybe I see things differently because I don’t know any BLACK people. Before taking a position on an issue, I try to have the full picture to avoid making narrow minded decisions.

I tried to do some research online, visiting BLACK-focused websites to see if I could get some insight. Instead, I found a bunch of articles making conclusory statements that anyone who disagreed with the BLACK community on any BLACK issue is simply a bigot, without providing any meaningful explanation. I do not think I am a bigot, so these articles did nothing but validate my views to myself because of the lack of any type of real explanation.

Thus, here is my problem: I don’t want to have a narrow minded opinion on BLACK issues, and realize that if I could discuss BLACK issues with a BLACK person (something I have never done before), maybe my views would be different.

The problem is that, at least from what I see, anyone who disagrees with the BLACK community on a BLACK issue is labeled as a bigot by the BLACK community. I think if I could talk to a BLACK person about BLACK issues without them judging me, I might have a different perspective. Even though such a conversation may not change my view at all, I am open to trying to understand everyone’s view.

I go to graduate school and know a girl who I am friendly with. She is BLACK and is open about it (she told me the first time we hung out). I think of all people she might not immediately judge me for my views, and would engage in a mature, educated conversation.

I do not know if it would be awkward/offensive to ask her to talk so I can gain a better understanding. Even if she agreed, I don’t know if she would be offended or label me a bigot for my views. The BLACK community doesn’t seem too understanding of opposing views, even when such views are not based on hate and have nothing to do with BLACK people. If there is a chance she would get offended, I would rather not risk a friendship over such a request.

On the other hand, we are graduating soon and I fear if I do not ask her to talk, I will never have the opportunity to engage in the conversation with someone who is BLACK and won’t immediately judge me before I can explain.

I would greatly appreciate any advice on (1) whether it would be appropriate/offensive to ask her to talk and (2) whether she would label me a bigot or be offended if some of my views on BLACK issues differed from her views.

Thanks.

Just a quick edit to make your views a little less offensive

You're welcome.

[Pix]

There are many reasons we care, ranging from the ethical to heartbreaking events that happen because we have civil unions instead. One is that civil unions aren't the same and thus they miss out on a lot, and sometimes (especially if they move to another state) they lose everything to family who have more rights (as those in a civil union are not family). Also, things like this happen:

http://www.tcpalm.com/news/2008/jun/25/w...ied-visit/

The family vacation cruise that Janice Langbehn, her partner Lisa Marie Pond and three of their four children set out to take in February 2007 was designed to be a celebration of the lesbian couple's 18 years together.

But when Pond suffered a massive stroke onboard before the ship left port and was rushed to Jackson Memorial Hospital, administrators refused to let Langbehn into the Pond's hospital room. A social worker told them they were in an "anti-gay city and state."

Langbehn filed a federal lawsuit Wednesday charging the hospital with negligence and "anti-gay animus" in refusing to recognize her and the children as Pond's family, even after a power of attorney was faxed to the hospital within an hour of their arrival

I never thought almost 20 years of love and family could be disregarded in an instant," said Langbehn, a social worker who lives with her children in Lacey, Wash.

Jackson officials declined to comment, except to say that the hospital follows state and federal laws on patient privacy that can forbid releasing health information to those outside the patient's immediate family.

(emphasis added)

If they'd been married instead then this would not have been an issue because THEN they'd have been family (unlike civil union). And that's just one of many reasons why we prefer marriage to civil unions.

So now I'd like to ask a question, please: if you don't know any gay people then why do you care if we have civil unions or marriage? Why does it concern you at all? That is to say, why does it bother you if your lesbian friends gets married or a civil union? Even if her relationships are "less important" and she's "less deserving of love" then how is society harmed by her getting married that you think she must be stopped for the good of all? :confused:

[VagabondKitten]

The LGBT rights movement is a civil rights movement. People often fail to see that it is not just a political movement, but a social one as well. It isn't just about the laws that we are trying to create to give a more equal footing to LGBT individuals, it's about creating acceptance and respect for your fellow human regardless of your sexuality or gender expression (unfortunately that second one tends to be ignored in this movement, but I won't go into that right now).

Now when a person tells me that they support civil unions but not gay marriage, they are essentially telling me that although they don't hate us, they still do not accept that we deserve the same thing as them. That our relationships should not be treated in the same way as theirs is, that our love is in some way less then theirs. Seems a little bigoted, no? If you don't think so you need to check your privilege. What would really help you is to really try and put yourself in our shoes, and I mean, REALLY try, and think about your opinions of LBGT rights from our perspective. This isn't just a political movement, we are fighting for love and respect. We want to be treated as equals, because we are.

[Undreamt]

I'm thinking that this topic might be starting to go off topic a bit, ironically people are getting caught up in the argument rather than what the original poster asked about.

Everyone is going to have their own points of opinion, often there are people that are very passionate about those topics, especially if they feel disadvantaged.

There is no real way to know how your friend will react, but I think as long as you are genuine and to make light of situations or topics that they consider serious issues then i don't think you can go wrong.

But if you want to get a different perspective on anything, I'm happy to discuss anything.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Gay, gay, gay...

What is the importance here? Gay people are people too...

Take me. If we met in real life you most likely wouldn't pick up on the fact that I prefer to sleep with men over women. Unless I had a partner at the time and he was calling me sweetie, or I came right out and said 'I'm gay.'

I'm just a guy, I hike, hunt, fish, know my way around the engine compartment of a vehicle, drove a jacked up 4x4 for many years, raise my own veg, worked in construction, have no sense of color or fashion. I'm a 'guy' who just happens to love other guys.

I'm a person, just like you, I have dreams, aspirations, hopes - When cut I bleed red blood, when screamed at with profanity I feel its sting just like you would. When I love my mate its with all my heart and soul and I am as protective and caring for my mate as much as you are for yours.

The reality is that LGBT people are just people, the majority of us are doctors, lawyers, merchants, chiefs, farmers, firemen, construction workers, nurses - we are everywhere with many interests, many hobbies, and we live in every corner of the world.... you get the idea, we come from all walks of life, we are in every shape, size, color and other package you can think of.

The only difference between a gay man and a straight man is that our focus for our love and affection is on a different gender.

I assure you, all of those feelings of love, affection, companionship, desire, commitment, hopes and dreams and all of that you have for your girlfriend a gay man has for his boyfriend.

The only difference is the plumbing, the emotions, the heart felt desires and wants and needs to be with ones 'better half' are exactly the same.



Instead of looking at your lesbian friend as a lesbian, look at her as a person.

Instead of looking at gay people as 'gay' look at them as people.

You will find that they will feel the same things you feel for your mate for their mate. Sure the pronouns are different (he/she) but the love, affection and all of that are exactly the same.

If you want to talk to her about her life and her love for her mate, think in gender neutral terms, or consider her as 'just one of the guys' talking about 'his' Girlfriend.


Yes she will be offended if your focus is on the 'gay'. Just like you would be offended if the focus was on the straight. Look past that, instead look at two people who love each other.