God is love?

[Wade]

Hmmm.

-------------------------------

And this is to say that while he, a christian, may have feelings about the matter that they, those feelings are not valid?

Actually as a man of faith I get hurt feelings every time someone opens the mouth in a negative way against 'Christianity' or other religions.

but then as a gay man I am used to persecution - so I have a tough skin and don't say much about it.

Is it really persecution though? We can't choose our sexuality, but we do choose our beliefs. And a person's beliefs, unlike their sexuality, can have a huge impact on the society as a whole. So I think it's fair game to talk about.

I always find it interesting when a gay person is a devout Christian. The book you follow is the single justification people use to persecute you for being gay. And I know, I know... those people aren't the REAL Christians and you are. But why is their interpretation any less valid than yours?

Until God himself floats down from the heavens and points to which group was lucky enough to interpret it correctly, it's all just up in the air.

A person's belief in the supernatural affects the whole group. And we as a people can discuss which political candidate would be best the run the country, which social policies would aide us best as a society, and what the science community is revealing about the nature of this reality we exist in, but as soon as we start discussing whether an invisible man in the sky exists or not, all of a sudden we're being persecuting.

It's an interesting question and an interesting debate. If your goal is discover absolute truth, then you should want to discuss these things. However, if your goal is to believe whatever you want to believe just so that you feel comfortable... then perhaps I am just being a dick.


A Kitty!

[MisterTinkles]

Here is one of my arguments on religion....

You cannot have "free will" and believe in some almighty being running things, thats hypocrisy.
You either believe you are being controlled, persuaded, or "lead" by some invisible being, or you control what you do, say, and think. You cant have both.

[SolemnBoy]

Here is one of my arguments on religion....

You cannot have "free will" and believe in some almighty being running things, thats hypocrisy.
You either believe you are being controlled, persuaded, or "lead" by some invisible being, or you control what you do, say, and think. You cant have both.

I'm not religious but I'm pretty sure that if I were I'd say one of two things.

1. I believe God is our creator but I don't believe he intervenes at all in our actions.
2. Humans do have free will generally, even if God may intervene and change our fates and actions occasionally.

But yeah I agree with you.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

You make the assumption that my faith is based solely on what is in the bible. Having lived on this planet for 47 years I have personally witnessed the hand of 'God' (Providence, Destiny, the Divine what ever you wish to call it) work in my life time and time again.

As for the bible, I am well aware of its inconsistencies (perceived and real), I am also aware that pre-Roman Church Authority (Catholic Church) Christians had more than 600 sacred texts (letters, tales, writings) which they considered authoritative and 'holy' and sacred.

I am also aware that the original Greek, Hebrew and Aramaic texts upon which the Latin Vulgate which is the predominate source for translation for English translations often say something altogether different than the commonly used English Translations say.

I am aware of the transcription errors and the blatant editing that has taken place. I am also aware that the story of Christ has been 'sexed up' by 'witnesses' decades after His Death to meet the needs of earlier prophecies.

But we are not talking mere dry facts when we discuss 'Faith'. Faith is a bit more than mere facts and calls upon much more than a set of documents written some 2000+ years ago.

I have a faith, which is inexplicable to a person who does not possess a faith.

The definition of faith that applies to me:

Faith:

2. Strong belief in God or in the doctrines of a religion, based on spiritual apprehension rather than proof.

Apprehension in this context relates to: Understanding; grasp.

Spiritual apprehension is what applies to me, personally. Again, I have lived 47 years on this planet, have witnessed things which would most likely melt your brain. I have survived through hell and high waters, have been in dire straights and frankly there are many times when aside from 'coincidence' I would have died or worse. And something - be it God, providence, Destiny or dumb luck pulled me out of the fires just in the nick of time.

The Promise of Salvation, the 'Love of God' and all of those other positives that one hears about rings a truth inside of me. Perhaps this isn't your personal truth, but it is my truth, one that is validated by the fact that I am sitting here today typing all of this.

It is as valid to me as your atheism is valid to you.

It goes beyond mere dry facts, it is a personal experience which is as valid to me as every other personal experience I have had.

This isn't to say I agree with every take on God that exists, nor do I believe in everything that every other Christ Follower and so called Christian calls upon in the bible. This isn't to say I blinding buy into every interpretation of The Word, or even believe every detail of the accounts of Paul/Saul, Matthew, Mark, Luke et al.

It means I have a faith.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Actually every GLBT is persecuted, each time some loud mouth utters "faggot" we are being persecuted.

Granted, here in the 21st century the cases of a group of people picking up a baseball bat and teaching the faggot the difference between right and wrong doesn't happen that much, but we are persecuted and hated each and every day in a plethora of other minor ways.

[Wade]

Here is one of my arguments on religion....

You cannot have "free will" and believe in some almighty being running things, thats hypocrisy.
You either believe you are being controlled, persuaded, or "lead" by some invisible being, or you control what you do, say, and think. You cant have both.

There is no logic in religion. That's why they came up with the word faith to make people stop asking dangerous question such as "how?" or "why?"

"Shhhhhhhhhh child. Stop these ridiculous questions. If you don't believe then you won't be accepted into the kingdom of heaven."

"But I was only wondering..."

"I said SHHHHH DAMMIT!"

Discouraging inquisitiveness in order to gain control. It's a very evil system.

There's a comedian Doug Stanhope who has a great bit that goes something like,

"That's why they have to sell religion to you while you're young. They shove that shit in your soft hole cork it up with fear. Because if they can get you to believe an invisible man lives in the sky when you're a child, then when you're an adult, they can get you to believe absolutely anything."

[Genersis]

*sigh*

[Wade]

*sigh*

Yeah, see what you started LONDONER?

You should know that frothing, angry atheists like me just help ourselves. I see a post about religion, and like a bear to honey, I follow.

Ughh, I do disgust myself sometimes.


A Fishy!

[bluefox4000]

Ya know..............................

Ah fuck it

Not worth it, lol

Mick

[SolemnBoy]

Greetings atheists and religious people! I'm Pino the problem-solving penguin

Y'all need to calm down over here in this thread! Sure, religion can be manipulative and evil in equal amounts, but when handled right it's a lifestyle just as acceptable as that of an atheist. Remember: you may have more scientific backing than your religious classmate, but that's no reason for arrogance. You may feel good about your self-perceived sense of logic but people will still think you're a dick.

Also, having a faith does not make you any less capable of reason and intellect! So long as your beliefs are modernized in favor of acceptance and so long as you don't force your views on everyone else, people should, and will leave you alone. Except for the dicks that is.

Pino the problem-solving penguin has spoooooooken.