Political correctness

[MisterTinkles]

Doesnt matter WHAT you say or WHO you say it too. Most everybody out there is looking for you to be offensive to them, so they can bitch, whine, complain, and hopefully make some easy cash out of it....or get their "15 minutes" of fame.

They WANT to be offended.

BUT.....

If you are known as an offensive person, then they cannot complain about what you say.
They take it upon themselves to speak to you, full well knowing that what comes out of your mouth is going to be their fault.

Yet another positive aspect of being an Asshole!!!

[VileKyle]

This whole topic offends me. I'm telling my mom!

[Tim18]

I personally understand the need for some political correctness.But I also think that too much of it kills conversation, because people don't know what they can and, can't say anymore without someone getting their panties in a bunch about it.

[cardiganwearer]

Still nobody prepared to say what political correctness is. It's as slippery and evasive as the people who complain about it.

So let me have a stab. It's the go-to response for people who have deeply held beliefs but lack the capacity to express them. That non-expression is due either to the weakness of their position or sheer laziness in expressing it. Calling a view PC just saves them the trouble of addressing it.

Instead of doing the hard work of establishing, or even expressing their position they resort to making themselves offensive and blaming anyone who takes offence for the very act of being offended. It's something you can make a general announcement about to head off the frightening prospect of actually having to engage anyone in the future.

This is what we would recognise in other fields as bullying, blaming the victim. Like all bullies, those who bang on about PC won't face their accusers and won't marshal real arguments. They'll rehearse the same old nonsense, be pointlessly rude and offensive and claim that as some sort of virtue. They'll dismiss substantive points as PC, and in their own minds that means they've won. This is the internet, it doesn't award prizes.

People with a sound case are not hurt by argument, if you've got a good one they may even change their mind and agree with you. People with a weak case are not hurt by argument. If you lose you lose, the board's open all day, come back and have another argument whenever you like.Telling someone repeatedly that you don't care for their feelings and dismissing their arguments as PC (without ever saying what that means) is not clever or special. Nobody should mistake strength of feeling for soundness of argument nor the capacity to offend (dead easy, anybody can do that) with the ability to defend a position.

Racking up the number of people who are offended by what you say is not winning anything, it's just reducing the likelihood they'll take the trouble to engage with you in future. Since there are no prizes, engagement is all that's on offer, especially when contributing to a message board. Why would you want to alienate people like that? If you just want to say stuff and not have it challenged then sign up for a blog.

I do care if I offend someone. If you are offended by something I say then come back to me and I'll have a go at putting that right. I'm struggling with the notion that not caring about offending people is somehow a good thing, a legitimate rhetorical device. I am even more nonplussed by the idea that establishing a reputation as an offensive person means that being offensive is somehow OK. Presumably establishing a reputation as a bully makes that OK too?

[Bowyn Aerrow]

There is a line between Political Correctness and Diplomacy in some cases, however PC approaches are often far more diplomatic than the methods people tend to use.

For a social species it is odd that humans tend to disregard protocols of civility far more often than they need to. These often result in conflicts where millions die, you know like World War I and World War II.

Hatred of others has been expressed in non-diplomatic ways. Resorting to name calling precludes any meaningful discussion about a subject.

There are inflammatory ways to say things and 'nice ways' to say things. Flaming the debate with words of hate never actually resolves the issue, it only leads to mud slinging and people picking up arms and start shooting.

I'm the first to admit that it can be loads of fun to piss people off by offending their sensibilities, however I temper the giggles of my own personal amusement of watching a person turn red with anger when I know that anger will resolve nothing, or worse, make the situation much more difficult to resolve.

I have a lot of politically incorrect thoughts and notions.

For instance I am 100% for the application of eugenics.

I do not make it into a thing of hate by saying point blank, these people with genetic defects should be sterilized. Instead I point out that there a hundreds of genetic defects that could be 'cured' if people willingly opted out of the gene pool.

The first offends, the later causes more thought and more people tend to agree that 'opting out' of the gene pool sounds nicer than sterilizing the retards and cripples.

[PaulUK]

Why are we having these threads? Most of these threads about is just us fighting against each other. This is supposed to be a friendly gay site. Not where you rant and rave and insult people. Just think about any new members who come here.

[pellaz]

most political issues, when considered by them selves, could be resolved in an hour. Its the other save the planet issues that take sooooo long.

[Lilmy87]

Cardigan, you are a clever man, and a nice man

I don't believe that words have magical powers, they aren't bad or good in themselves. But words are loaded with meaning, associations and connotations, that vary from person to person. In that way, words can be very hurtful.

The best I have ever seen this put is by a man called John Franklin Stephens, who is a speaker/activist on disability issues. He is talking about the word 'Retard' here, but much of this could also be applicable to any word used towards a minority that has experienced oppression and hate.

"So, what's wrong with "retard"? I can only tell you what it means to me and people like me when we hear it. It means that the rest of you are excluding us from your group. We are something that is not like you and something that none of you would ever want to be. We are something outside the "in" group. We are someone that is not your kind.
I want you to know that it hurts to be left out here, alone. Nothing scares me as much as feeling all alone in a world that moves so much faster than I do..... Please put yourself on that bus and fill the bus with people who are different from you. Imagine that they start making jokes using a term that describes you. It hurts and it is scary."

(John Franklin Stephens, Denver Post, full artical here:http://www.denverpost.com/commented/ci_10351963)

Words like the f word, the n word, the r word... they reinforce the existing power balance. The majority, privileged group defining terms to keep the minority on the outside, to make the different and lesser. I think these words are harmful. If you have had those terms used towards you, with hostility and hate, they keep these connotations.

You are free to use them all you want but there is nothing admirable about it.

Conversely, I also think that PC language can be used to dress up some morally awful ideas. I suppose the intent of the words is most important.

Being a nice person, surely, is about being mindful of that, how words can affect those around us. That is my opinion anyway.

[SlipknotRlZZ]

This is my first post on GS in a long time and it was mostly driven by dfiant leaving.

I'd say that everyone has the right to get offended about something, but before speaking up, they should take a moment to think about whether the thing they got offended about was
1) directed towards them
2) meant to be offensive
3) a product of ignorance

For me, it's always important to be polite and mostly serious when talking to someone for the first time and before I get to know what sort of things they're sensitive about. But being politically incorrect in front of close friends who do not mind it the least bit is absolutely fine and no outside person should take the liberty of criticizing you for it.

[SlipknotRlZZ]

Political correctness can be achieved without limiting free speech or thought. It's a matter of phrasing and being respectful when needed.