Light Bulbs to be outlawed in the USA on 1/1/14

[MisterTinkles]

As to the real reason why Incandescent light-bulbs are on the way out:

https://www.google.com/#q=tungsten+shortage

We are at peak everything. Humans have been using everything up. If human civilization was to collapse today, and have to go through the Industrial Revolution again, humanity wouldn't be able to do that because the near surface, easy to reach deposits of everything is gone. We are relying on high end technologies and deep mines deep wells to get at material. While the earth has abundant resources, what is left is so deep that it requires more and more energy to get at it, the pay off with easy to reach materials is no longer there.

The dollar store is cheap shit being sold as a bargain. I have yet to find anything that is constructed there with anything meeting the minimum that passes as quality craftsmanship for this 21st century. even their fucking candles won't burn properly. Cheap is not frugal Bob.


Instead of getting a 60 watt equivalent CFL try a 100 watt equivalent in a lamp (one with a shade, or are you too cheap to afford lampshades?).

Shop online I guess: http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/86873/F...Qgod3k4Aew

About 10 dollars for 8 bulbs, which in your large mansion should meet all of your needs for lights.

Home Despot and Loews always tend to have sales on bulbs.

As for the environmental friendliness of light bulbs. There is more mercury in the fish and chips you consume (if you consume the average amount) per year than what is in a light bulb. As for energy and toxins in the process of manufacture, China produces the Tungsten, and their mining methods are less than Eco-freindly. Extracting Mercury is ironically easier and less damaging to the environment than extracting, refining tungsten.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/home/rev...ws/4217864 Reality check:

More information: https://www.google.com/#q=how+much+mercury+is+in+a+cfl

The chances of breaking a CFL bulb are less than breaking a incandescent bulb. The glass which is formed into a tube is slightly thicker, in order to be bent around and around and twisted and what not.

Also consider what you are buying:

Source: http://www.dec.ny.gov/chemical/44927.html

If they are on sale at the dollar store you appear to love so much, I'm willing to bet that chances are very low they are Energy Star CFLs.

I'm also willing to bet that you bought the cheapest bulb you saw which most likely was not an Energy Star CFL.

There is a difference between cheap and frugal. A cheap person considers the initial layout costs and doesn't concern the long term costs. A frugal person is willing to expend a bit more on the initial layout costs on a thing if the long term investment pays off.

In the case of CFL Vs. Incandescent. A CFL uses about 1/4 of the electricity an incandescent uses. Depending on how expensive electricity is and how it is generated in your area (Hydro Vs Coal as example) the long term savings to both your wallet and the environment is going to be made up for by that initial expenditure.

Just understand, when I move in we ain't doing old technologies like Incandescent light bulbs, I will pull you into the 21st century kicking and screaming.

As I have stated in other posts............
Just because its in writing, doesn't make it true, real, or actual.
Corporations and governments have lied about everything in order to make billions upon billions upon billions of dollars from the public.
Lead paint was good. Smoking was good. Coke in Coca Cola was good. Diesel is better. Dumping toxic/radioactive waste into rivers and the ocean wouldnt hurt anyone. Oh, the Atom Bomb wont really hurt them, just give them a little sunburn.

Standard light bulbs can be made with other various metals.

As far as the type of bulbs sold in the dollar stores. I dont buy the CHEAP crap. The dollar stores I shop at get the good ones in made by Sylvania, Sunbeam, and General Electric. And those are the ones Im stocking up on. I hopefully plan to have a case full by the time they run out of them.

And CFL's are BAD for America in another way..............MORE jobs being sent to China.
If you want to believe everything you read, then read this. It says CFL's are CHEAPER to manufacture than standard bulbs, because they will be made in China.

http://www.mnn.com/green-tech/gadgets-el...lbs-closes

Just what we need.......MORE people out of work, and China making more fucking garbage to be sent over here.

[VileKyle]

As I have stated in other posts............
Just because its in writing, doesn't make it true, real, or actual.
Corporations and governments have lied about everything in order to make billions upon billions upon billions of dollars from the public.
Lead paint was good. Smoking was good. Coke in Coca Cola was good. Diesel is better. Dumping toxic/radioactive waste into rivers and the ocean wouldnt hurt anyone. Oh, the Atom Bomb wont really hurt them, just give them a little sunburn.

Standard light bulbs can be made with other various metals.

As far as the type of bulbs sold in the dollar stores. I dont buy the CHEAP crap. The dollar stores I shop at get the good ones in made by Sylvania, Sunbeam, and General Electric. And those are the ones Im stocking up on. I hopefully plan to have a case full by the time they run out of them.

And CFL's are BAD for America in another way..............MORE jobs being sent to China.
If you want to believe everything you read, then read this. It says CFL's are CHEAPER to manufacture than standard bulbs, because they will be made in China.

http://www.mnn.com/green-tech/gadgets-el...lbs-closes

Just what we need.......MORE people out of work, and China making more fucking garbage to be sent over here.

What I read here: "Not everything you read is true. Therefore, everything I read that I don't like is false."

I see that argument used a lot, and it is a total fallacy. Provide documented evidence that a statement is false before condemning it completely. Don't just use similar examples that aren't directly related.

[MisterTinkles]

What I read here: "Not everything you read is true. Therefore, everything I read that I don't like is false."

I see that argument used a lot, and it is a total fallacy. Provide documented evidence that a statement is false before condemning it completely. Don't just use similar examples that aren't directly related.

Ok 'Pix', here are some examples of how the government lies:
http://listverse.com/2013/06/27/10-peopl...overnment/
And seeing as the energy department is part of the govt and the utility conglomerates own and run the energy department.......I can deduce that the energy dept lies to sell, as does the companies that run them.
(I have a big, LOOOOOOONG speech about consumer lies and false advertising)

Heres something about the bulbs and how they were tested.

The Light Bulb Showdown: LEDs vs. CFLs vs. Incandescent Bulbs – What’s the Best Deal Now … And In The Future?
Trent
By Trent

Recently, I made a purchase that’s right on the fine line between my desire to investigate frugality and my enjoyment of new technology. I purchased three very expensive 60 watt light bulbs, not much different than any other light bulb. The catch? These bulbs were LED bulbs, among the first LED bulbs designed to replace incandescent bulbs available on the market.

About LED light bulbs To put it simply, LED light bulbs will eventually be what we use to replace incandescent bulbs – CFLs are merely a stopgap measure. LED bulbs are made out of clusters of light emitting diodes – you’ve seen them in use in countless places, but perhaps most commonly as the small indicator lights on electronic devices. LEDs use very little energy for the amount of light they produce.

The problem with using LEDs for normal light bulbs are many fold. For one, the light they produce is directional, meaning that they work great for things like flashlights where you want to point the light in one direction, but they don’t work nearly as well for general room lighting. For another, individual LEDs generally aren’t all that bright – individual ones don’t produce a great deal of light, certainly not enough to light up a room. Another problem is that the process for making truly white LEDs pushes the very limits of technology.

In short, LED light bulbs are just barely at the edge of being commercially viable. The first manufacturer that I’m aware of that’s producing direct replacement bulbs that replace normal 60 watt light bulbs is C. Crane, which is making what they call GeoBulbs. These bulbs cost an astounding $119.95 a pop, but they last for 30,000 hours and use only 7.5 watts of energy (less than the 13 watts or so an equivalent CFL would use, and far less than the 60 watts a comparable incandescent would use). Even better, they light up immediately like an incandescent and don’t have disposal hazards like CFLs do.

Still, $119.95 for a light bulb? Can that possibly be worth it? And if it’s not, at what price point would such an LED light bulb be the most cost-effective method of home lighting? And how’s the quality, anyway? Do they really compare well to incandescent bulbs?

I decided to thoroughly compare them by comparing three different 60 watt cool white light bulbs – one CFL, one LED, and one incandescent. Let’s see how they work out.

Incandescents, CFLs, and LEDs in Action
I decided to test three roughly equivalent bulbs – a 7.5 watt LED bulb, a 13 watt CFL bulb, and a 60 watt incandescent bulb. The CFL and LED were common generic bulbs as purchased at a typical department store, whereas the LED bulb was the GeoBulb produced by C. Crane. Take a peek at this puppy.


BEHOLD THE LED!

Here they are, all laid out, like daisies in a row.


The big question that most people ask is about brightness, so I installed all three bulbs in a single ceiling fan, flipped on the light, and here were the results.



In this picture, the incandescent is on the left, the LED bulb is in the middle, and the CFL is on the right. This shows clearly that the LED bulb is quite bright. It’s also a rather different color than the other bulbs, but that’s primarily due to the difference between “cool” and “warm” lighting – you can choose the particular type of lighting you like.

The LED does have a minor drawback, though, which you can see here:



Quite a bit of the GeoBulb’s light is directional. It’s very bright directly underneath it, but if you move far off to the side, it’s not producing nearly as much incidental light as the incandescent bulb. For many situations, this isn’t a problem at all – recessed lights and lamps won’t skip a beat. However, for other uses (such as a single bulb that lights a small room), you may want to wait for next generation LEDs.

On startup time As soon as I flipped the light switch, the LED and incandescent bulb lit up immediately. The CFL also came on as well, but it had a brief five second (or so) warm-up time before it reached full brightness.

On heat This was the one area where the LED really blew me away. After five minutes or so of taking pictures and examining the light for myself, I turned off the lights and removed each bulb, intending to see how warm they got in the process. Both the CFL and incandescent bulbs were too hot for me to immediately touch. However, the LED GeoBulb was still cool to the touch. It had produced almost no noticeable heat.

This is a very important but difficult to quantify factor. The heat produced by these bulbs escapes into your house, contributing subtly to the heat level in your home. Over a long period, light bulbs can actually make a noticeable difference in the amount of energy required to heat your home (lessening it a bit) or cool your home (increasing it a bit). The LED bulbs would factor into that equation much less than CFL bulbs or incandescent bulbs.

In short, the LED bulbs flip on as quickly as incandescent bulbs (and faster than CFLs) and produce roughly the same amount of useful light, but much of that light is focused in one direction. This makes the GeoBulbs just fine for most uses, but perhaps not appropriate in some cases.

Comparing Costs
The best way to compare the three types of bulbs is to calculate their costs over 30,000 hours of usage – the lifespan of a single LED bulb.

Standard incandescent bulbs The CFL used here has a lifetime of 1,300 hours, so we would need 23 bulbs over the period of this study. I was able to purchase a single incandescent of this type for $0.34, so our total cost for bulbs over 30,000 hours would be $7.82.

As it uses 60 watts, over a period of 30,000 hours, an incandescent bulb would use 1,800,000 watt hours, or 1,800 kilowatt hours. At the current approximate price of $0.10 per kilowatt hour, you would have to pay $180.00 to run an incandescent bulb over this period.

Thus, the total cost of a 60 watt incandescent bulb over a 30,000 hour lifespan is $187.82.

CFL bulbs The CFL used here has a lifetime of 8,000 hours, so we would need 3.75 bulbs over the period of this study. I was able to purchase a single CFL for $1.24, so our total cost for bulbs over 30,000 hours would be $4.65.

As it uses 13 watts, over a period of 30,000 hours, a CFL bulb would use 390,000 watt hours, or 390 kilowatt hours. At the current approximate price of $0.10 per kilowatt hour, you would have to pay $39.00 to run a CFL bulb over this period.

Thus, the total cost of a CFL bulb over a 30,000 hour lifespan is $43.65.

LED bulbs The LED bulb used here has a lifetime of 30,000 hours, so we would need only one bulb over the period of this study. Unfortunately, that single bulb has a cost of $119.99.

As it uses 7.5 watts, over a period of 30,000 hours, an LED bulb would use 245,000 watt hours, or 245 kilowatt hours. At the current approximate price of $0.10 per kilowatt hour, you would have to pay $24.50 to run an LED bulb over this period.

Thus, the total cost of an LED bulb over a 30,000 hour lifespan is $144.49.

What’s the Best Deal Right Now?
Clearly, given the current market conditions, CFLs are the best bargain at the moment for our home lighting needs. However, they have drawbacks – they have special disposal requirements and do not provide immediate illumination as incandescent bulbs and LED bulbs provide.

However, if you’re avoiding CFLs and are directly switching to LEDs from incandescent bulbs, replacement LED bulbs are already there in terms of cost. You’ll have to judge for yourself if the light quality matches your needs.

My current plan is to use the CFL bulbs for general lighting purposes, incandescent bulbs for focused reading (where immediate light is important), and the LED bulbs will be used in a few very hard-to-reach sockets, since they have a very, very long life span. As the price on the LED bulbs goes down (as they inevitably will over the next few years), I’ll replace the incandescent bulbs first, then the CFLs.

When Will LED Bulbs Be Ready for Prime Time?
My advice is to keep a close tab on the prices of LED bulbs. Ignoring light quality entirely, LED bulbs are already cheaper than incandescent bulbs over a long period, but as they are manufactured by more and more companies, the prices on such bulbs will drop over time – and I believe a rapid drop will occur over the next one to two years.

If you’re switching directly from incandescent bulbs, I would wait for one to two years for the market on these bulbs to mature just a bit – let the technology mature and let other manufacturers get into the game, driving prices down. Wait until the prices on LED bulbs drop to half of their current price – say, $60 a bulb – then begin replacing incandescent lights.

Why not just replace all incandescent bulbs with these bulbs now, since they’re cheaper over the bulb’s lifetime? I believe that in the short term, the prices on LED bulbs like these will actually drop faster than the energy cost savings in buying them now, so I would hold off for a year or so before replacing all of my incandescent bulbs.

If you’re just looking for the cheapest lighting possible, your magic number for LED bulbs is in the $15 per bulb ballpark When those prices are reached, LEDs will then be the cheapest solution for light bulbs in the home – and they won’t have the challenges that CFLs provide, either. I would estimate this price point will be reached in three to five years.
*********************************************************************************
Is that better?

In accordance with these types of testing, I base my judgement on my actual testing, and those people I know who use such devices.

And my personal conclusions are that CFL's are cheaper to make and sold at a more expensive price and are not as bright, and are 100% more toxic than the other two bulbs. PLUS they take jobs away from Americans.

LED's are brighter, but they are directional, therefore not worth the money, as you have to use more of them to get the light where you want it, therefore defeating the purpose of having such a device. And again, taking jobs away from Americans.

Standard bulbs use a bit more energy, but not much more. The savings are NOT that significant when ALL FACTORS ARE ADDED IN. The safest, cheapest, non toxic method of light is the standard bulb.

And besides, it doesnt matter how much energy you use, the electric companies are going to hike up prices regardless, just as they have always done. So where is those few extra bucks you supposedly save on those bulbs going too? The electric company....one way or the other.

Does not matter what you do, the electric company is going to get their money one way or the other. By forcing people to buy these new "scams" (just like Obama forcing people to buy crappy, worthless healthcare), they will make MORE money, and start charging you MORE to use such devices.

[VileKyle]

Ok 'Pix', here are some examples of how the government lies:
http://listverse.com/2013/06/27/10-peopl...overnment/
And seeing as the energy department is part of the govt and the utility conglomerates own and run the energy department.......I can deduce that the energy dept lies to sell, as does the companies that run them.
(I have a big, LOOOOOOONG speech about consumer lies and false advertising)

Yay! I was compared to Pix! I'm not sure why I was, but I like Pix. I'll take it as a compliment.

Anyways, I'm not saying the government doesn't lie. Of course they do. That doesn't mean that everything, or even most things, they say are lies. Your link only covers lies unrelated to this. It has no evidence that this is a lie.

You also aren't considering that some things you are reading might be lies. I'm not saying they are, but it is just as likely.

[MisterTinkles]

Yay! I was compared to Pix! I'm not sure why I was, but I like Pix. I'll take it as a compliment.

Anyways, I'm not saying the government doesn't lie. Of course they do. That doesn't mean that everything, or even most things, they say are lies. Your link only covers lies unrelated to this. It has no evidence that this is a lie.

You also aren't considering that some things you are reading might be lies. I'm not saying they are, but it is just as likely.

I never ever said everything is a lie. I just said you cant believe everything you read.
I have worked in retail, I have worked in govt affiliated offices, and I have worked in the factory sect. They are all interconnected, and I use what I discovered in those industries to help guide me on what is truth and what is possible bullshit, when I read the "news" or "statistics".

I never say everything is a lie, I just say that you cannot believe everything you read. Which includes, but is not limited too, statistics on products.

Thats why I like to test things out myself, and talk to people who have used such things.

For example:
ALL of the people I have ever known/worked with/talked too that bought brand new Dodge Ram trucks say they are "made to sell" and pieces of crap. Why? Because 99% of those people claimed that after a couple months, the trucks started having "major problems", which called for a LOT of mechanic needed repairs........coincidentally, repairs NOT covered by the warranty!!!

After reading about a LOT of recalls and problems Chrysler has with their vehicles, I determined that Chrysler/Dodge purposely builds in these problems in order to extract even MORE money from UN-NEEDED and constant repairs.....and also why their warranties fail to have these problems covered by the warranty.

Not everything comes in "black and white". A lot of truths are from spoken word from the person or people that have been affected by whatever the issue is.


For example, that is.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

So the links I post to are lies and the one you posted to is the truth?

I have been using florescent tube light to battle winter depression for well over a decade. I have found that CFL's have done a better job in that department than incandescent light bulbs - further more my seedlings and other plants love CFL incandescent not so much.

I get better seedling growth with CFL's than with incandescent. CFL bulb rated 100 watts (comparable to a 100 watt incandescent bulb) hung at 12 inches above my seedling tray leads to shorter stockier seedlings than using an Incandecent of 100 watts hung at 12 inches - A tall spindly seedling is not a good thing, it is a sign of a plant striving to get higher to catch more light. And that is what seedlings due for an incandescent light-bulb.

Jobs being moved to China are not just in the light bulb industry. Jobs being moved to china is due to politics, not to technologies - and the terrible habit Americans have of wanting 'a fair wage' instead of being a 'wage slave'.

Regardless of which technology manufactured in the way of light bulbs, the jobs have been moved to china because china isn't bothered with ecological laws and paying a 'fair wage' to its workers.

This is a straw-man argument you are throwing out there to produce an emotional response to a problem which exists as an exterior issue(s) that have no real bearing on CFL to Incandescent light bulbs. GE was already planning on moving light bulb production to some other place where cheap labor is had - even if new technologies were not emerging at this time. Everything is being moved to other parts of the world because the little brown people do not understand that they can make $25.00 per hour with health and dental and eye insurance and paid holidays and lots of other crap that Americans continually insist is their God Given Right to have.

The majority of Incandescent light bulbs being made were aready being made in China or Taiwan before the closing of the last Incandescent light bulb factory in the USA. More so if we include Christmas lights.

Thats why I like to test things out myself, and talk to people who have used such things.

This isn't broccoli, where you can take a bite and know for certain if you do or do not like it. this is a light bulb, you bought and used one (1) and have come to many conclusions based on that one light.

Considering all the money you throw away on kitchen gadgets and all the time you spend in dollar stores buying crap goods (expired foods perhaps?) I think you can afford to actually do a real test, such as switch out all the bulbs in one room in your place and see what it actually looks like with LED bulbs.

Yes it will be different, and if you switch from output of 60 to 100 (not what the CFL uses, but what it is equivalent to) you may find the light to be better.

Another thing at work against you is your age. You are used to the incandescent lamp because that is all they knew back in the bronze age. You adapted to computers, to cells phones, Fascism, you can adapt to the CFL.

[MisterTinkles]

Wow..........I thought this subject was dropped.

Ok, so...yeah....lets go with everything is a lie (even though I never said it was).

Sure, I may have gotten a faulty CFL light when I got one to see how it worked out for me.
And, as stated several times before, I take ALL the information I get and extrapolate a decision from what I have read, what I have tested, and what my friends/relatives/coworkers have said.

Hence, my recommendation is that CFL's are a piece of crap. LED is the best, but also not viable as of yet, because they only "shine" in one direction. Until they perfect the CFL, the standard bulb is the one to stay with.......lasts just as long, if not longer, gives better light, and does not contain TOXIC materials, therefore is not a possible health hazard.

And it doesnt matter how much you "save" off of these bulbs, the electric company is going to get that money you "saved" one way or the other......so it really doesnt matter.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Aren't I a friend - what have I said? Does it not matter what I say? Or do you just prefer to stick with your woo-woo conspiracy wing-nut friends and totally ignore those of us who KNOW what is really wrong with the world (Illuminati/ Reptilians are getting ready to cull the herd of humanity) ?

[NerdyGiant]

It's sad to think younger generations won't know the old fashioned design of a lightbulb. The cartoony representation of someone getting an idea will be changed for them (and a lot more work for the artists, doing all the swirly thingies for the new ones).

I'm still bitter that kids these days don't know what VCR's and Tape Recorders are...

[MisterTinkles]

It's sad to think younger generations won't know the old fashioned design of a lightbulb. The cartoony representation of someone getting an idea will be changed for them (and a lot more work for the artists, doing all the swirly thingies for the new ones).

I'm still bitter that kids these days don't know what VCR's and Tape Recorders are...

That goes for phone booths, standard clocks, counting money by hand, manners, and etiquette too.