Acceptance ...

[marshlander]

I've just spent the best part of three hours writing a response to Andy_123 and sox-and-the-city (to whom many thanks for their passionate, well argued and thought-provoking comments). Stupidly I closed the whole window when I should have closed a tab on which I'd looked up a reference, :mad: so you've all been spared my erudition

I haven't the heart or the time to attempt to reconstruct it so:

• we probably agree on many points, although
  
• I disagree that most people get their impressions of gays from pride events
  • most people have never seen a pride event
    
  • people like John Barrowman currently have a much higher visibility than any pride
    
  • not everyone reads the papers
• if we leave pride celebrations to the exhibitionists alone where is the message?
  • perhaps we should encourage local pride events to ensure that events contain a rally that celebrates and commemorates the reasons we are there as well as expressing our hopes for our own and the future of our brothers and sisters around the world. Otherwise what's the difference between a pride event and a night out clubbing?
    
  • do pride events have themes?
    
  • drunk people, gay or straight, are generally not my company of choice
• marching under the Stonewall banner in last year's London pride was an enriching and moving experience. As far as I can remember everyone in that group dressed normally. Applause and genuine appreciation from the crowds lining the streets followed the Stonewall group all the way along the route
  
• life in Manchester is probably different from that in rural Norfolk and pride in a cosmopolitan conurbation will probably be more visible to a concentrated population
  
• the carnival arts are a recognised and valid form of expression
  
• the arts should be prepared to challenge and mock the existing order
  
• I agree there is a fine line dividing the challenging from the offensive
  
• if we forget what we are celebrating are we doomed to repeat our past?
  
• we'll not change some people's opinions, whatever we do, but we might make a difference to some if we stand up and are prepared to be counted

Sorry for that, it made a lot more sense before!

[marshlander]

My apologies Sox-and-the-city, knitting was simply the first example to spring to mind. I'm not trying to say that knitting is effeminate i'm saying that it is perceived to be effeminate by a lot of people.

As a Green Party activist in the 1980s I can assure you that knitting at party conferences was a popular masculine aid to the concentration.

[joseph]

hello thank you i wasnt suremile: one thing happened before when i gone to the shop and some boys had a toy gun and it shoot little hard balls and they shot them at my head 2 times and it was very very sore and horrible. and luahfing at me so i didnt like that. but i didnt now why they did that to me. when someone is relly horrible i always not nown why they did it:frown: and sometimes when peple do that becase the person was gay and they dident like them.

[marshlander]

hello thank you i wasnt suremile: one thing happened before when i gone to the shop and some boys had a toy gun and it shoot little hard balls and they shot them at my head 2 times and it was very very sore and horrible. and luahfing at me so i didnt like that. but i didnt now why they did that to me. when someone is relly horrible i always not nown why they did it:frown: and sometimes when peple do that becase the person was gay and they dident like them.

That's not nice :mad:

It sounds to me like you were unlucky :frown:

Some people are very unkind and don't care if they upset others. It may not have been anything to do with being gay ... unless ... Joseph, you weren't trying to snog one of them, were you :eek:

[joseph]

no i promise i wasnt snogging any of them! i promise i dident becase they were saying bad names at me before and poited at me and then them shooting the pretend gun and i not said anything to them exept ow when they hit my head. but i think them just wonted to have fun doing it. it is bad if pepel do like that exept becase someone was gay thouh

[fjp999]

to joseph

just be happy to know that those evil boys are going to burn in hell - or worse...

[marshlander]

no i promise i wasnt snogging any of them! i promise i dident becase they were saying bad names at me before and poited at me and then them shooting the pretend gun and i not said anything to them exept ow when they hit my head. but i think them just wonted to have fun doing it. it is bad if pepel do like that exept becase someone was gay thouh

You are right, Joseph. I think it is bad if they do it whether they think someone is gay or because they think it is funny. :mad: It is not funny or clever to hurt people, but I think you know that. You know more than them mile:

I was only joking about snogging them

[princealbertofb]

...I haven't the heart or the time to attempt to reconstruct it so:

• we probably agree on many points, although
  
• I disagree that most people get their impressions of gays from pride events
  • most people have never seen a pride event
    
  • people like John Barrowman currently have a much higher visibility than any pride
    
  • not everyone reads the papers
• if we leave pride celebrations to the exhibitionists alone where is the message?
  • perhaps we should encourage local pride events to ensure that events contain a rally that celebrates and commemorates the reasons we are there as well as expressing our hopes for our own and the future of our brothers and sisters around the world. Otherwise what's the difference between a pride event and a night out clubbing?
    
  • do pride events have themes?
    
  • drunk people, gay or straight, are generally not my company of choice
• marching under the Stonewall banner in last year's London pride was an enriching and moving experience. As far as I can remember everyone in that group dressed normally. Applause and genuine appreciation from the crowds lining the streets followed the Stonewall group all the way along the route
  
• life in Manchester is probably different from that in rural Norfolk and pride in a cosmopolitan conurbation will probably be more visible to a concentrated population
  
• the carnival arts are a recognised and valid form of expression
  
• the arts should be prepared to challenge and mock the existing order
  
• I agree there is a fine line dividing the challenging from the offensive
  
• if we forget what we are celebrating are we doomed to repeat our past?
  
• we'll not change some people's opinions, whatever we do, but we might make a difference to some if we stand up and are prepared to be counted

Sorry for that, it made a lot more sense before!

honey it still makes a lot of sense, and it's concise, which is a bonus in this thread... so much to read!!

[princealbertofb]

no i promise i wasnt snogging any of them! i promise i dident becase they were saying bad names at me before and poited at me and then them shooting the pretend gun and i not said anything to them exept ow when they hit my head. but i think them just wonted to have fun doing it. it is bad if pepel do like that exept becase someone was gay thouh

Joseph, I think that hurting people for no purpose or reason is wrong... There is no reason for hurting someone who is gay, nor for hurting someone who is disabled, nor for hurting someone who is ugly, nor for hurting someone who is old, or foreign, or of a different skin colour. To me, what those boys did was completely wrong. Did you tell your support worker about it?

[joseph]

hello i hate it aswell when someone is horrid to someone for no reason exept becase they are diffrent to them like if they are any of them things.but i didnt tell anyone becuse i dident wont them to now. but it is ok nowmile: