Acceptance ...

[andy_123]

• we probably agree on many points

Agreed

I disagree that most people get their impressions of gays from pride events

• most people have never seen a pride event
  
• people like John Barrowman currently have a much higher visibility than any pride
  
• not everyone reads the papers

How do you know that most people have never seen a gay pride event before? Are you taking into account viewings from second hand sources such as videos and magazines aswell? Not everyone reads the newspapers but almost everyone has access to some form of media wether it be newspaper, television or internet, i'm certain that you can find representations of gay pride in all of these.

I'm not really sure of any mathematical equation that measures visibility, so I don't think it's possible to say wether John Barrowman has a greater degree of it than pride does. All I know is that gay pride is specifically designed to be the event that communicates our culture to the outside world.

• perhaps we should encourage local pride events to ensure that events contain a rally that celebrates and commemorates the reasons we are there as well as expressing our hopes for our own and the future of our brothers and sisters around the world. Otherwise what's the difference between a pride event and a night out clubbing?
  
• do pride events have themes?
  
• drunk people, gay or straight, are generally not my company of choice

To a certain extent I agree with you, however I belive that having a more conservative rally within a gay pride event will do nothing to diminish the negative image of pride as a whole. You mentioned that last year in London pride you marched under the Stonewall banner, on a google image search I typed in the phrase "London gay pride 2007", this is what came up:

http://images.google.co.uk/images?gbv=2&...pride+2007

As you can see no images of the Stonewall banner have come up, on the other hand a number of promiscuous ones have. Quite disturbingly the very first image, as posted by the BBC (a website known for its legitimacy) shows a picture of numerous half naked males in fetish uniform.

• marching under the Stonewall banner in last year's London pride was an enriching and moving experience. As far as I can remember everyone in that group dressed normally. Applause and genuine appreciation from the crowds lining the streets followed the Stonewall group all the way along the route

I'm glad to here it and i'm sure that the crowd genuienly appreciated your efforts. Unfortunatly the Stonewall banner is not the one thats going to get the majority of publicity.

• the carnival arts are a recognised and valid form of expression
  
• the arts should be prepared to challenge and mock the existing order
  
• I agree there is a fine line dividing the challenging from the offensive

Do we as the gay community actually want the carnival arts to represent us? who gets to choose what happens at a gay pride festival? Is there a democratic election or does the same group do it year after year?

• if we forget what we are celebrating are we doomed to repeat our past?

I do not advocate the removal of banners such as stonewall from gay pride, quite the opposite. Themes such as this need to make up the backbone of the festivals as opposed to the usual drag queens and nudity.

• we'll not change some people's opinions, whatever we do, but we might make a difference to some if we stand up and are prepared to be counted

Agreed, I just don't think that gay pride (its current incarnation atleast) is the best way to be counted.

[Bob]

It usually tends to be the un-educated and fowl mouthed, council estate types who make the gay scene sound so 'wrong' in this world. I think the progress is slow, but compared to a few years a go, gay and bisexual people have become a lot more accepted, but I don't know if this is the best it's ever going to get.

I live in a really rough area, like I mentioned before, so people are really single minded around here and they don't really accept anything that is a bump in the road or 'different' to what already is. If you don't act really tough and rock solid, which i'm not, you might as well label yourself as a puff because that's what they think like around here.

Maybe in the future, it will get to the point where we are all treated equally, but I myself can't really see that happening. :frown:

Bob

[BiPenny]

This is why I LOVE living near London. Almost all of my peers down here know about my sexuality, some of the straght girls are uncomfortable around me but that is a sign of their immaturity and lack of confidence in their own sexuality IMO.

Soho is one of the most amazing places in the world. People from every walk of life, dressed as they wish, doing as they wish, being with who they wish and no-one bats an eyelid. Soho for me was incredibly liberating. There is a bubble around the place and what happens happens. You can just be yourself.

In fact it is the only place I have found where I can fully be myself. even on another gay forum (though it was promptly removed and dealt with) I was given a full dressing down by another member of the community who was very vocal about the fact that she didn't agree with Bisexuality and that I wasn't a proper gay and I had no idea or right to opinion in gay rights.

I might just set up camp in G-A-Y bar. (no pun intended!!)

[Mark]

Ok please keep in mind this post is 2 weeks old and I only came back yesterday

Right I personally believe that things will become better and it will be accepted more. Im a strong believer that people inherit their parents beliefs and attitudes. As time goes on more and more are becoming accepting so it should pass down to children etc.

But saying that I do think people can change and form their own opinions as it is natural but such festivals such as gay pride isnt the best demonstration. Yes most of you will be SHOCK HORROR, but ive been to a few pride events and been disgusted all the guys/girls getting off and getting intimate/dirty on the floor or in the toilets, but I think it was like more being thrown into the faces of people which really dont want to see.

As I dont flaunt my sexuality (not saying im ashamed and deny it!) I feel when people ask if im gay and I say yes I am they respect it more so, so overall ive never had a bad experience. We will never be able to predict the future. :] We can only hope x


(Sorry if im a bit behind )

[fjp999]

Ok please keep in mind this post is 2 weeks old and I only came back yesterday

It couldnt have just been yesterday :eek:

[Smurlos]

Ok please keep in mind this post is 2 weeks old and I only came back yesterday

Right I personally believe that things will become better and it will be accepted more. Im a strong believer that people inherit their parents beliefs and attitudes. As time goes on more and more are becoming accepting so it should pass down to children etc.

But saying that I do think people can change and form their own opinions as it is natural but such festivals such as gay pride isnt the best demonstration. Yes most of you will be SHOCK HORROR, but ive been to a few pride events and been disgusted all the guys/girls getting off and getting intimate/dirty on the floor or in the toilets, but I think it was like more being thrown into the faces of people which really dont want to see.

As I dont flaunt my sexuality (not saying im ashamed and deny it!) I feel when people ask if im gay and I say yes I am they respect it more so, so overall ive never had a bad experience. We will never be able to predict the future. :] We can only hope x


(Sorry if im a bit behind )

Ditto to all of that post :biggrin: - give the man a brownie!

[Shadow]

... even on another gay forum (though it was promptly removed and dealt with) I was given a full dressing down by another member of the community who was very vocal about the fact that she didn't agree with Bisexuality and that I wasn't a proper gay and I had no idea or right to opinion in gay rights.

Aaaaargh !! Y'know it really gets under my skin when people throw that argument around ?

"I don't agree with bisexuality" ... who the HELL gets off saying that ? HOW presumptuous !! I'm sure the entire bisexual community would be MOST put-out to hear that somebody disagreed with it ... .

It's like ... yes, that's your opinion ... and didn't we ALSO used to believe that the world was FLAT and that if you sailed far enough you'd either fall off the end, or be eaten by Dragons ??? Or that cigarettes were good for you ???

What's wrong with people just accepting that bisexuality exists ? It's not like it's some great unspoken menace that's going to corrupt society as we know it ...

... AND, whilst we're on the subject ? Why is it so much more often that it's homosexual people that have a problem with bisexuality than heterosexual people ? That REALLY confuses me ... as in, it's people already in a minority group that are flinging mud at another minority group ... it's just so weird !!

How can we preach tolerance and understanding when we're damning our own brothers and sisters from an unjust, flawed and biased viewpoint ?

Sorry ... as you can tell it really does cheese me off - sorry you had to put up with it !!

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!

[sox-and-the-city]

I really don't get it. I think it's utterly disgraceful to dismiss people like that. I don't have the energy right now, so i'll type a proper rant sometime soon...

As for the whole acceptance thing, i think there's not much left for me to say, i've ranted and raved enough for the next wee while...

One question, what do y'all mean by 'flaunting your sexuality'??

Cos that's something i get accused of quite a lot, but i don't think i do...

xxx

[fjp999]

I do wish that I was a true bi-sexual... always thought everyone is bi and defining oneself as gay or straight simply meant a preference... The bi in my life wont accept the "hero" status given but I do give it!

[Shadow]

I really don't get it. I think it's utterly disgraceful to dismiss people like that. I don't have the energy right now, so i'll type a proper rant sometime soon...

As for the whole acceptance thing, i think there's not much left for me to say, i've ranted and raved enough for the next wee while...

One question, what do y'all mean by 'flaunting your sexuality'??

Cos that's something i get accused of quite a lot, but i don't think i do...

xxx

I think when most people use the phrase "flaunting your sexuality", what they mean is behaving in a manner which deliberately accentuates, or makes a focal point of, your sexuality, in a negative way ... so like ... if you were all over your mates to the point of making them uncomfortable ... or if you were constantly making reference to penises and stuff in conversation, to the extent that it became almost singular ... that's kinda "flaunting your sexuality" behaviour.

... at least that's my understanding of it as a term ...

!?!?! Shadow !?!?!