Your Personal Utopia

[HumbleTangerine]

Today in school we were given 10 minutes each to describe and then present our own personal utopias; societies that would be ideal in our eyes.

Some students described more or less communist societies where absolute equality is in focus. One girl basically described an anarcho-capitalist society where all functions usually associated with governments are handled by private operators. Most of them however described a non-communist socialist society where the government strives to maintain equality and justice through collectively financed welfare.

The instructions confused me at first, because I wasn't sure what degree of realism to use in my own presentation. Was I supposed to describe my ideal society based on perfect, adjustable circumstances or based on what's possible to achieve based on society in its current stage? I discovered that I have two personal utopias. One is based on the unrealistic assumption that citizens in the society would be at all times just, peaceful and responsible; in which case an anarchocapitalist structure is the most appealing to me. Absolute freedom of choice in a private market that works splendidly.

In reality I believe such a society to be impossible, which brings me to my second, more realistic utopia. This one is pretty much based on social liberalism. A capitalist economy regulated by a government to ensure certain standards of quality and responsibility are upheld. A welfare system comprised of reasonable governmental subsidies, free education and access to care financed through collecive taxes. Private schools and hospitals that are strongly regulated to avoid corruption and overall a very strong respect for human freedom. Obviously this entails, amongst other things the decriminalization of narcotics.

What does your vision of a perfect society look like?

[matty7]

my perfect utopia is me living on some remote ice bound land mass with just my dogs for company in reality - where you have greed you will have someone willing to take it off the weaker person - u can times this by country's too - while there is greed and profit to be made then forget about utopia - they wont let you have it -

wow - when did I get so cynical

[BlackBaron]

What does your vision of a perfect society look like?

Vote for HumbleTangerine!)))

[the decriminalization of narcotics.

This is a bad idea...)

[Pix]

Like you, I prefer the anarcho-capitalist version (*), though I don't think it's feasible given human nature.

Realistically? I don't think there is a system that exists that wouldn't screw people over and ruin utopia, again the pitfall of human nature. I could wax long on this but for brevity I'll say that perhaps the biggest obstacle is the tribal circuits where some people are seen as having more rights than others, and the amazing ability of the human brain to rationalize, all aggravated by the brains of many people LITERALLY unable to think rationally when it comes to politics (example) which I believe also applies to religion (though I'm not aware of any studies on that). The only way to solve that is to change the brain...a thought that horrifies me even more than "kill everyone who isn't like you." The people most eager to change the brain of everyone else would be the last people who should (assuming anyone should have that ability).

However, transhumanists have speculated on some amazing changes that might happen to us that could revolutionize our society the same way writing once did, that we'd become something other than human where all the old rules were changed. Some scenerios include the ability to create anything we wanted (precise molecular control) and/or the ability to adapt to any environment so that the cause of government (which is actually more about oppression and/or control of resources for the benefit of a few at the expense of the many, at least once it's big enough) and its methods no longer work.

But as long as we remain human as we understand it then the best I can see is an intergalactic society that couldn't be centralized and people were able to find what works for them, that's probably as good as it could possibly get. I'd feel sorry for any intelligent life more primitive than us that we found, however.

* Btw, if you like the anarcho-capitalist society then I thought you'd enjoy this:

http://www.bigheadpress.com/tpbtgn?page=1

The detective eventually (20-30 pages in) gets thrown through a top secret portal into a world of anarcho-capitalists and just when things don't seem like they could get anymore interesting, they do. I loved that book when I first read it.

[HumbleTangerine]

Like you, I prefer the anarcho-capitalist version (*), though I don't think it's feasible given human nature.

Realistically? I don't think there is a system that exists that wouldn't screw people over and ruin utopia, again the pitfall of human nature. I could wax long on this but for brevity I'll say that perhaps the biggest obstacle is the tribal circuits where some people are seen as having more rights than others, and the amazing ability of the human brain to rationalize, all aggravated by the brains of many people LITERALLY unable to think rationally when it comes to politics (example) which I believe also applies to religion (though I'm not aware of any studies on that). The only way to solve that is to change the brain...a thought that horrifies me even more than "kill everyone who isn't like you." The people most eager to change the brain of everyone else would be the last people who should (assuming anyone should have that ability).

However, transhumanists have speculated on some amazing changes that might happen to us that could revolutionize our society the same way writing once did, that we'd become something other than human where all the old rules were changed. Some scenerios include the ability to create anything we wanted (precise molecular control) and/or the ability to adapt to any environment so that the cause of government (which is actually more about oppression, at least once it's big enough) and its methods no longer work (even for those who wanted them to).

Best I can see is an intergalactic society that couldn't be centralized and people were able to find what works for them, that's probably as good as it could possibly get. I'd feel sorry for any intelligent life more primitive than us that we found, however.

* Btw, if you like the anarcho-capitalist society then I thought you'd enjoy this:

http://www.bigheadpress.com/tpbtgn?page=1

The detective eventually (20-30 pages in) gets thrown through a top secret portal into a world of anarcho-capitalists and just when things don't seem like they could get anymore interesting, they do. I loved that book when I first read it.

Interesting reflections. I'll check the graphic novel more thoroughly when I have the time! Also, to clarify, I don't really "like" the anarcho-capitalist society. I don't believe it could ever work. If all circumstances were known before-hand to be forever favourable to that particular structure, then it's by far my favourite. But realistically? Nah.

[CardShark]

One is based on the unrealistic assumption that citizens in the society would be at all times just, peaceful and responsible

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[Pix]

Interesting reflections. I'll check the graphic novel more thoroughly when I have the time! Also, to clarify, I don't really "like" the anarcho-capitalist society. I don't believe it could ever work. If all circumstances were known before-hand to be forever favourable to that particular structure, then it's by far my favourite. But realistically? Nah.

That's what I said.

feasible

Clarification: I was agreeing with you.

[Cuddly]

I like the slightly more liberal view, where equality isn't in complete focus. You should be rewarded for working 90 hours per week, over the guy who works for 20 hours a week. The state should serve as a safety net, so those who cannot provide for themselves are helped to get back on their feet.

I would like to see research and advance highly prioritized; such as tax-write-offs on new, more eco-friendly and safer cars. In Denmark we drive around in trashcans because there's a ~200% tax on cars (meaning we pay ~300% of the car's value, absurd right? What a millionaire drives in in Denmark is the same as the average housewife drives in in Sweden... You can literally point at a swedish luxury Mercedes S500 with all equipment and say "That costs the same as my volvo with no extra equipment" - ramblingrant)

A society where nobody hurts each other, with no racism or prejudice.

[Tulloni]

Hey Humble - it seems to me that your second utopia sounds similar to the Swedish model of society which you're currently living in and I would say that sounds like a nice idea. Having been to Sweden I would say it actually works fairly well. For example, I did not see too many homeless people on the streets of Stockholm whereas in London and Paris there're homeless everywhere you look. And it's a nice idea.

It's absurd for example that young people these days are expected to pay for stupid university fees with no guarantee of a good education anyway, whereas the previous generations enjoyed free higher education (and whom support tuition fees) - what gives them the right to decide that? surely if they support it they should stop being hypocrites and pay back their fees at today's rates or at least pay their fair share of tax for a change.

In my utopia tax avoidance and evasion would be severely punished. No more slaps on the wrist, you dodgy taxes you should be treated the same as other kinds of fraudsters and go straight to jail. Hard labour would be a welcome addition and would prove that it doesn't matter how wealthy you are (as this is a crime perpetrated by those with high earnings), you do the time.

I would prefer a greener country but think it's impossible as there's too much consumption and far too many people. I would like to see population growth halted - 62million+ people in such a small space is fucking ridiculous and unsustainable. People shouldn't have so many babies and expect those who don't have children to pay for them all. I am all for supporting families of 3-4 but not 7-8 persons. I would like to see someone actually admit this is a problem and do something about it for once.

I would bring back national housing stock as well - state owned. Building on brownfield land would be the best way of doing this. I would also pass laws banning private landlords from buying up multiple properties. Greedy landlords should not be allowed to have housing empires which allow them to fix rents at such high rates. I would also prevent corrupt landlords from renting out rooms to illegal migrants as that encourages illegal immigration and the exploitation of migrants. Good landlords will be allowed to continue as usual but the bad ones need to be stamped out hard.

Ideally I would like to say a less crowded, friendlier, greener country where everyone has to contribute and does. Everyone fulfils their obligations equally and plays their part which I feel is not happening at the moment.

[Tulloni]

I've just noticed the time you posted the first message Humble - you go to school on Sunday?!

PS: I would ban greed as well. I am getting sick to death of greed, vanity, and obsession with looks and money. This it the era of narcissism and it's like Oscar Wilde's curtains - either it goes or I go!!