Ayn Rand

[HumbleTangerine]

Recently I've been getting kind of interested in philosophy. Don't get your expectations up too much, it's not a subject I know very much about (although I certainly aspire to). One of the more interesting names I've encountered so far is Ayn Rand.

She was a strong advocator of rational self-interest and believed that people who sacrifice their own interests for the well-being of others are immoral. A government's job in her opinion is to merely make sure that individual freedom (such as the right to own property) is protected. In other words she despised welfare societies where people are forced to contribute to the well-being of others through taxation. Charity is fine by all means in her philosophy, but not through any kind of force. Naturally she believed in a completely free capitalist market with no governmental interference.

Personally, this woman really fascinates me. She comes across as someone who developed a very firm view on morality and life early on and stuck to it relentlessly making neither contradictions nor exceptions. I have great respect and admiration for people who passionately uphold their own ideals consistently.

As to her philosophy, it makes a lot of sense for people who value freedom as the goal which to strive for within politics. However, I do believe in a somewhat limited form of welfare state with free education, free health-care etc. and do not advocate the kind of dog-eat-dog world Mrs. Rand would see us have. Her belief in a completely unregulated and free market seems to me pretty naive. She claimed once in an interview that monopolies cannot possibly occur in a free market, which I don't really agree with. I also feel like it's relatively easy for someone with her privilege to speak about a completely free world where individual achievements and ambition are recipes for unrestrained success. She was born into a bourgeoisie family, received high quality education etc. so in her ideal world she was equipped with the tools to success from the very beginning. Someone who is born as an ethnic minority, with certain handicaps or other factors that make the goal of success harder to reach would hardly share the same vision of a utopia.

I'm kind of curious to see what other people think of Mrs. Rand. Maybe there are more knowledgeable people in the forum who can shed some light on her philosophy with either praise or criticism? I feel like it's impossible to have a non-interesting discussion about her at the very least!

[East]

Read about the end of her life...equally as "fascinating". I believe the woman lacked empathy and was a sociopath. She certainly had no problem doing exactly what she advocated against her entire life by collecting social security and possibly Medicare.

I despise the woman.

[jaxc]

Well if your interested in her philosophy, you could check some novels she wrote, Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged, haven't read them myself, but I heard there pretty decent, if a bit long a wordy.
As for her philosophy, I do agree with some of it like Objectivism and the role of government, but like you I also believe that there's a place for both charity and limited welfare, and some economic regulations, just wish they would pass some to actually get rid of rampant corporatism and actually allow all companies, big and small, to compete on a truly fair playing field, which is also one of the fundamental problems I believe with trickle down economics, Big corps. that tend to only care about the bottom line "cough" Wal-Mart "cough" tend not to be all that altruistic, and the massive subsidies, bailouts, and tax-cuts(which usually can only be utilized by companies that can afford to hire tons of lawyers) just usually makes it easier for them to screw over their workers, customers and smaller competition. Sigh! glad I got that out of my system:biggrin:

[jaxc]

oh, and I was also going to point out how she was pretty much a hypocrite and kind of a bitch, but EAST already pointed it out for me, thanks EAST!:biggrin:

[HumbleTangerine]

Oh, I can totally see why people despise her. Like I said, I wouldn't want to live in her society.

When you talk about the end of her life I assume you're referring to the claim that she relied on social welfare once she got cancer? I have two things to say in response to that:

1. I'm pretty sure that information regarding her supposed reliance of welfare is based on the testimony of an individual who knew her. I could be mistaken, but if it's true it's not all that reliable.

2. Supposing it's actually true, I don't think it makes for very relevant criticism. First of all, she had involuntarily contributed to the social welfare system her entire life through taxation even though she despised the whole system. In her philosophy that is basically theft, and I think most people would agree that taxation IS in fact force, even if most people (myself included) also feel it's a necessary force. In other words, her accumulated wealth had been consistently "stolen" from her throughout her entire life, so if she used the welfare system she despised briefly during her final years, I guess you could say she simply got some of the money that was stolen from her back. In my opinion it's not exactly hypocricy, but I can see why a lot of people would disagree.

[Virge]

Read about the end of her life...equally as "fascinating". I believe the woman lacked empathy and was a sociopath. She certainly had no problem doing exactly what she advocated against her entire life by collecting social security and possibly Medicare.

I despise the woman.

Here's one of those things I was talking about in Mett8's post.... people not getting or telling the whole story and basing full size opinions on less than half the facts.

Ayn Rand was dying of cancer and running out of money when she took government assistance.


http://boingboing.net/2011/01/28/ayn-ran...overn.html

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Tangerine, she has followers worldwide, even India has an Ayn Rand website. My BF has read all her stuff and likes her. From him I know 3-4 quotes form her, and most of all this dialog from the book Atlas Shrugged where one character is explaining the meaning of sex to another character. Once I first read it a few years ago I've read hundreds of times since and given it out to others. She describes sex "as it is" ~~~ no religious mumbo jumbo, fuck the biology, ~ she described sex PERFECTLY!

Scroll down to the italics
http://occasionalpoetinresidence.blogspo...-hank.html

[50Plus]

Have you got any of her books to read?

I have several, but have not found the time to pull myself away from the GS forum to read them.

I do like to study philosophy, not sure I like having philosophical discussions [last time I had one the moderator of the Philosophy Forum ragged all over me because of a statement I made].

If you do get any of the books and want a study buddy lemme know.

[Sharkspeare]

I will defend "Atlas Shrugged" to the death. It changed my life utterly. See, when I moved to this condo, one of the legs on a cute little side table I had got broken and I couldn't use it anymore. But then I placed a hardcover copy of "Atlas Shrugged" under the broken leg and now it's steady as a rock!
I recommend her book for everyone! If you need something to hold the screen door open when you're taking stuff outside to grill it's an excellent doorstop.....perfect for your young niece to place on the chair and sit on so she can reach the table.....really it's one of the most useful pieces in all literature!

[East]

Here's one of those things I was talking about in Mett8's post.... people not getting or telling the whole story and basing full size opinions on less than half the facts.

Ayn Rand was dying of cancer and running out of money when she took government assistance.

No...she lacked empathy and she took the government assistance she spent her life advocating against. That is a fact. I think she was a sociopath...based on who she was and what she believed in.

She didn't give a f*ck when other people were dying of cancer or starving. I do dismiss anyone who has no compassion or empathy for other human beings.

I don't think you have to though...go ahead and admire her. I don't have to.

[jaxc]

I will defend "Atlas Shrugged" to the death. It changed my life utterly. See, when I moved to this condo, one of the legs on a cute little side table I had got broken and I couldn't use it anymore. But then I placed a hardcover copy of "Atlas Shrugged" under the broken leg and now it's steady as a rock!
I recommend her book for everyone! If you need something to hold the screen door open when you're taking stuff outside to grill it's an excellent doorstop.....perfect for your young niece to place on the chair and sit on so she can reach the table.....really it's one of the most useful pieces in all literature!

Can't tell if you dislike the book or simply making fun of how freaking big it is (seriously, Tolkien probably would of told her to cut back a little:biggrin still a hilarious post