Homosexuality is NOT a sin, God does not hate gays

[Cuddly]

OP, you're preaching to the already converted.

Yes...
Welcome to GS. It surprised me how many people believe in god. Here in Denmark practically nobody does, atleast I've never met anybody who confessed to truely believing in god, heaven, angels, devils and hell.
Honestly, it's great to have faith, I have faith too. But after my upbringing and education, that faith doesn't include mystical beings. It's limited to love and justice.

[BlueStar]

Becoming secular freed me of many absurd manners and unexplained guilt that brought me to believe I'd go to hell. Then after knowing I was gay and that the church forbids welcoming people like me, I chose to just believe in only God because of my life experiences.

I do believe that God controls time, destiny, and the far universe, everything the humans can't reach, yet he gave complete freedom to human beings. And all bad things happening in the world, as opposite to what most atheists would say, are exclusively because of humans' choices, both by evil people who fulfill their cruel pleasures AND by good people who either stay silent or grow their children alike. Napoleon is right saying: "The world suffers a lot, not because of bad people but because the silence of good people."

God is an unfathomable mysterious power. I consider him the judge of humanity, loving everyone equally without boundaries, and the best friend of who truly seeks love and peace.

[Wade]

What a load off my mind.

[AdamAndWill]

Will: Adam and I recently joined a church. An Episcopal Church. We did so less from religious conviction than to try to provide stability and routine for our three year old, as well as new playmates in a comfortable social setting.
This is an Episcopal Church with a very active LGBT fellowship.
Something that the Rector said impressed me. He said that the Bible is the word of God, AS INTERPETED BY MAN...and, as such, is fallible and open to question...
I was staggered by his honesty, but it makes a lot of sense.

[Richard625]

Oh enough already with that utter BULLSHIT first prove that the bible was the word of god and then we can go on proving that he didn't hate gays... of course GOD doesn't hate gays, HOMOSEXUALITY was first coined in 1946 and the word "GAY" come from the French "gai" which was believed to be first used to define an overwhelming state of happiness. "Gay" in early 1920 has started to be used among homosexuals because they found that "homosexual" was too clinical. Therefore God cannot hates Gays nor Homosexual and all the nuances that came from them because those words were not part of the bible and did not exist... and further more Sodom and Gomorhe have not be proven to ever have existed. And that GOD, is the god of the JEWS, there was other gods, even during its time that I'm certain were not as human-like.

SPELL GOD in reverse and what do you get... YEAH! That's it you're worshipping your best friend.

Enough and start living for yourself, it's not from GOD that you need to worry about, you need to worry about those that can truly hurt you; emotionally, psychologically and physically. So can we once and for all stop that holy ghost nonsense and stop looking for its approbation.

I know one can argue with that simple logic... but if you want it complicate go ahead I'll make it so - SO VERY GOOD POINT YOU GOT THERE BUT CAN WE JUST HAVE A RELIGIOUS BREAK

First,
If you don't like a religious topic then stay out of the RELIGION section.

There are people who ARE concerned about what that book of fables says. So I layed it out in nice simple language to show them that IF they had any worries about what the book says...... they'd know that all of the fucking sacks-of-shit who are trying to use as a tool of hate to propagate lies to prove their point..... their claim of "what the Bible says" is absolute and utter bull-shit.
Sorry to offend you by trying to do something helpful.
Apparently you didn't read it very well anyway.

[Virge]

You teach by example, not by being a hypocrite.

↑↑↑↑↑↑ that says it all.

Go here for a lesson on how homophobia ended up in the friggin bible.
http://gayspeak.com/showpost.php?p=465801&postcount=116

[Virge]

First,
If you don't like a religious topic then stay out of the RELIGION section.

↑↑↑↑ I take back the kudos Richard...
You sure set a shitty example with this example of pious arrogance.

[SIZE="7"][COLOR="Red"]In fact you need to really work on teaching by example.
[/COLOR][/SIZE]

[Jake]

First,
If you don't like a religious topic then stay out of the RELIGION section.

There are people who ARE concerned about what that book of fables says. So I layed it out in nice simple language to show them that IF they had any worries about what the book says...... they'd know that all of the fucking sacks-of-shit who are trying to use as a tool of hate to propagate lies to prove their point..... their claim of "what the Bible says" is absolute and utter bull-shit.
Sorry to offend you by trying to do something helpful.
Apparently you didn't read it very well anyway.

You need more than that to offend me... and well NO i won't stay out of it because an opinion is just like an asshole everyone has one... if you wanted to continue a religious conversation for saying the same shit that has been told more than a thousand time here use the search feature.

Sorry for pointing that out to you. What make you think I didn't read it well... I know what you did, and wrote and I just asked to have a religious vacation.

And on to the topic... I am from an Atheist Researching association... I can give you even more ammo that you lay on here.

[Jake]

Alright just for the sake of being a fair player, I am going to comment on those points you've layout and perhaps brings more clarity to those you already brought.

NOWHERE in the Bible does it indicate that God made homosexuality a sin!! He made his list of sins very clear.

God did not make Homosexuality a sin, but it is clearly stated in the The Book of Leviticus the following:

Leviticus 18:22 - “Do not lie with a man as one lies with a woman; that is detestable.”

Most fundamentalist Christians will often use that line to prove that God was against the homosexual. But here's the other logic of GOD.

Leviticus also says that I may also sell my daughter into sexual slavery and that I am to put my son to death if he curses at me.

What is does state is that "It is an abomination". But even that was stated by a human, not God.

You have quote a passage from Deuteronomy

"Abomination" does not mean "sin" or "sinful", it means:

"A thing that causes disgust or hatred."

And unfortunately that is true, it does..... to the intolerant haters in the world.

Never do forget that the bible was translated over and over and some meaning from the old Hebrew were lost in translation. Satan, the famous character is actually a verb in old Hebrew which means to deceive, therefore, Satan was wrongly translated as a name while the whole thinks referred to deceivers.

Sure, some human authors of some of the books in the Bible do condemn it...... but it does not state anywhere that God says it as a sin. It's not the Word of God, it's statements from human beings saying it's so. There's only One God.

Of course they would condemn it, because in many other societies, homosexuality was tolerated, it was tolerated amongst the Romans, Egyptians and previous civilizations so the Israelites, in order to look better would condemn such practices. And, well from the bible one understand that God himself acknowledge that there was other Gods, why otherwise does he needs to recall in so many books that he is the god of Jacob, Moses, Issac etc.

The true Word of God regarding homosexuality as "a sin" would absolutely be seen as one of the Deadly Sins, and/or in the Ten Commandments if it was SO serious, SO wrong, but obviously it's trivial, not even seen as bad as stealing, lying, adultery, or "coveting" which are in the Ten. So it does not even rise to the seriousness of the offenses of the 7 Deadly Sins:

Lust
Gluttony
Pride
Envy
Avarice (greed)
Sloth
Wrath

The ten commandments could have been written by my 13 years old son, in fact they are so basic, that somehow if you take some times to analyse them, they are redundant to one another. In fact the ten commandments are not as serious as what was being lay out in Leviticus. The book of Leviticus is the real book of commandments. Here's some examples that you will find in Leviticus and I question here if that was written by a highly intelligent being ?

You shall not make for yourself an idol in the form of anything in heaven above or on the earth below. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I, the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those that hate me, but showing love to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.*

• You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God.*
  
  
• Remember the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God.*
  
  
• Honor your father and your mother, so that they may live long in the land the Lord your God is giving you.*
  
  [B]
• You shall not commit murder.* - Comming from a Maniacal, Genocidal, Jealous being I don't know why he even bother adding this.
  
  
• You shall not commit adultery.*
  
  
• You shall not steal.*
  
  
• You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor.*
  
  
• You shall not covet your neighbor’s house. You shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, or his manservant or maidservant, his ox or donkey, or anything that belongs to him
  

Now that was Leviticus but let's take a look at The Book of Numbers that's even more specific:

• “Do not have sexual relations with your sister.”*
  
• “Do not have sexual relations with your son’s daughter.”*
  
• “Do not have sexual relations with your father’s sister.”*
  
• “Do not have sexual relations with your mother’s sister.”*
  
• “Do not have sexual relations with your aunt.” (Isn’t this a repeat of the above two?)*
  
• “Do not have sexual relations with your daughter-in-law.”*
  
• “Do not have sexual relations with the mother and her daughter.”*
  
• “Do not have sexual relations with your brother’s wife.”*
  
• “Do not have sexual relations with your wife’s sister, whilst your sister is alive.”
  
• “Do not approach a woman to have sexual relations with her during her monthly period.”*
  
• “Do not have sexual relations with your neighbor’s wife.”*
  
• “Do not lie with a man, as you do with a woman. This is detestable.” Remember that one - sorry it was in Numbers
  

He could have made eight had it been that important, that HUGE of a sin...... but he didn't even add it as a footnote to "Lust" !!

3 and to the most 4 of its commandments were valid even for that period of time.

Do you even see Sodomy there??
NO!
That says a lot in terms of how absolutely insignificant it makes homosexuality as "a sin" (which it is not anyway), except in the eyes of the humans who have railed against it. There is not one indication that it is a sin in the eyes of God. Under Old Law or New.
It's only stupid humans who have parroted it daily since biblical times, misusing God as a puppet for their own means to propagate the lie and hatred, to control people.... and put words in God's mouth!!

Well as I said above, the ten commandments were absolutely not the main rules, as the Israelites kept on looking for the promise land, more and more rules were added and they were as more stupid as the first day they supposedly left Egypt. But let's open a parenthesis on the Israelites people, I am a fan of Egyptology, I've studied it and even visited few pyramids myself and I even started learning how to read Pictograms, but we're talking about one of the most recorded ancient civilization that the ancient world had. You go anywhere in Egypt and you can find accounts of how the civilization lived back then... but I can assure you there's NO MENTION of the people of Israel being kept enslaved. Egyptians were recording EVERYTHING or almost, if the Holocaust and the Passover would have really happened, it would have been drawn on the walls of the most important pyramids. Well guys, there's nothing about that event or even many of the plagues GOD supposedly afflicted Egypt with.

So who is the sinner?

Sins are biblical invention, there's no sense and certainly not those "Tweety bird" deadly sins

I does state that "They shall be put to death" and other threats of damnation, but these are obviously human threats and not from God, otherwise there would be a hell of a lot fewer humans on the face of the Earth!!
Or maybe God was lying, breaking his own Commandment? I don't think so..... it was just another scare tactic to keep people fearful.
What happened to "Thou Shalt Not Kill" ?
It doesn't say "Thou shalt not kill, unless they are homosexual".

Another reason that proves the threat "They shall be put to death" is a human statement...... because homosexuality is not listed as a Deadly Sin..... so no, humans made that statement up, the Commandments obviously ignored in the haze of their hatred.

Well I did addresse that earlier, god goes on the saying "do as I say, don't do as I do"

And "They shall not know the Kingdom of Heaven" was an statement made by the same human being, to bring fear just as the others were designed to do, to keep people towing the holy line.

Hmm, now you're jumping to the New testament, because Judaism does not believe in paradise, paradise came after Jesus-Christ. In the 5 books of the Pentateuch, paradise isn't mentioned, it's all about gratification and butt kissing GOD for earthly favors.

Given that homosexuality is not listed as a Deadly Sin or in the Ten Commandments, it makes absolute rational, logical sense that all of the threats and condemnations in the Bible are purely of human origin. They do not make sense in terms of what God is. Again...... God never indicated it a sin, so why would He make threats?

You do know that anyone using the Bible to condemn homosexuality are people who actually never really read the bible. If someone really takes the time to sit and read the bible from cover to cover - taking that they apply their modern common sense to it, they would quickly find out that the Israelites were much more into fucking sheep than ass fucking, that is why you'd find the rules from GOD not to have sex with animals, because you can be certain that those were written because they loved to fuck their livestocks LOL.

And while this is here, think about this:
"Wrath" is a Deadly Sin so in the fable about Sodom and Gomorrah, God supposedly destroyed by "The Wrath of God". WHAT??? Is God is a hypocrite who won't even follow His own demands that humans are to follow?? It's okay for Him, but he'll KILL YOU if you step over the line?? (which again, also breaks one of the Ten Commandments "Thou Shalt Not Kill"). [QUOTE]
Everything with GOD is sentenced to death

[QUOTE]That entire story of Sodom and Gomorrah cannot be proven true anyway. Even if it was true, the addition of homosexuality as the cause for the destruction is completely unfounded. Yet another story created by humans to bolster their power through lies and to put the "fear of God" upon the people so they follow their human demands. Nothing controls people better than fear. And religions know that and have used it as a tool from the earliest days.

I stopped believing in that story when it was said that the two men were angels, I believe in angels as much as I believe I can shit pot of golds. Also it's not right to fuck two strangers men, but it's okay to give your virgin daughter to a pack of dirty ass bankers than having them have their way with to stranger men that LOT didn't even know. That just there proof the logic of the time.

Regardless, to this day no strongly verified sites for the cities have been found in that entire area where it supposedly happened.

The twin cities NEVER did existed, otherwise as per the Bible they'd be somewhere between Iran-Irak borders.

And in the end it all contradicts what God is supposed to be anyway, an unconditionally loving God. How can he harbor so much hatred and anger, such evil, as to slaughter so many people with his Wrath, when he made Wrath a Deadly Sin, but not homosexuality.... yet supposedly slaughtered entire communities because of it??

Well Richard, it's simple, the Hebrew GOD was created by humans, for humans, read the Greek or romans mythology and you can notice there's a huge difference between their gods versus the humans, while Yahve, Jehovah, call him the way you want, is a benevolent, hypocrite, maniacal, jealous, envious GOD, and I could go on and on. God did not make us to its image, we made him to OUR image because all those emotions are not those of a god, they are those of humans. Therefore, it is quite easy to know that the god of the Bible was created by humans.

No one knows who these people were who wrote books of the Bible, what their intentions or ulterior motives were, what power-trip they might have been on, what they mental stability was.

Well Richard, they were humans, ancient, imbecile, mysogine, violent humans and yes power over your peers is human nature. And in order to finishing this beautiful story. Moses never did existed and before Eve, there was Lilith, so EVE was not the first. The fun part of the bible is to find all new character from one book to another.

So I take the Bible with a grain of salt

I don't take the Bible period, well last month I ran out of wipes for my windows, and I used the bible's sheets to clean then. And when I was done, I said - LET THERE BE LIGHT. And the sun came in. WOAH am I GOD?

[ChitChat]

I don't believe it is bs. I believe it is true. However when deciphering its meaning and what part is factual and which is not I also beleive that it must first be understood at what time in human existence it was written. The way we in modern day interpret life and language is much different than in ancient times. If you were living then you might describe things that happen around you in the way you understand life in general and with the technology of your age. English was not even the language that it was orginally written in. People talked more in 'word pictures'. Its about relationship. Descriptions of the lives of some people and how they went from a fallen state of being and recovered from it. About struggles people endured and how those things made them feel and how they were able to deal with it. Simply change the circumstance of what they went through to your own and the same principles to deal with the balance of heart and mind exist. That is just my opinion.