Am I Ever Going To Get It Right?

[AdamAndWill]

Will: This is August. Adam and I were planning an August wedding. And then, a couple months ago, I tripped over my own stupid arrogance, fell down the rabbit hole and landed on a therapist's couch. Not that I needed to be there, but I was prepared to be magnanimous and give it lip service. And then the therapist told us that if we wanted her to work with us, we needed to postpone the wedding for six months. She said that she doesn't work well under deadline, and that she wasn't prepared to sign on for a short term "fix" date.

And Adam agreed.

It's fair to say that nothing in my life has ever hit me as hard or scared me as much. I wanted to tell her she was crazy. I wanted to tell him to get over it. I wanted to get married that same day. But I was too freaking terrified to do any of those things, so instead I shut up and listened.

I don't like this. I don't want to do this. I don't like being wrong. I don't like tearing my guts out twice a week and spreading the entrails out for examination. But what I do want, above and beyond all of this, is Adam.

I don't even know what this post is about, just that I'm uncertain and scared and confused. And I keep wondering if I'm ever going to be the man that I need to be, if I'm ever going to get it right...

-------------------

[TwisttheLeaf]

I don't like this. I don't want to do this. I don't like being wrong. I don't like tearing my guts out twice a week and spreading the entrails out for examination. But what I do want, above and beyond all of this, is Adam.

I don't even know what this post is about, just that I'm uncertain and scared and confused. And I keep wondering if I'm ever going to be the man that I need to be, if I'm ever going to get it right...

I have a healthy hatred for my therapist. I'll be honest. I hate going to see her. I hated it back when I was going 3x a week. I hated it when I was going 2x a week. I hated it when I was going once a week... every 2weeks.... every 3 weeks. I hate it now even going once every other month.

This is normal.

And the fact is? Tho I hate it, it has helped.

No one likes to be wrong. No one likes to bare their vulnerabilities and bring them into the light to be examined by someone else and picked apart. It's frustrating and often can be painful emotionally and especially painful to ones pride.

But... we go to therapists to learn. To learn about ourselves. To learn about our partners. To learn coping skills, or better social skills, or empathy, or other life skills that are important to developing a better life and relationships. The experience teaches us.... and makes us stronger than we were before we started.

You're not alone, man. Hang in there.

[ExpatBrit77]

I agree. I went to a therapist briefly a few years ago. Bear in mind that I come from a country where the idea of going to a therapist is either ridiculed or if people are in therapy they certainly don't mention it to others. So that, combined with being utterly uncomfortable with discussing quite personal aspects of the workings of my head, made me feel pretty ugggggh about the whole thing. But it is worth sticking with it.

[ETOTE]

It's not about getting it right.

It's about being true to yourself and being real, loving your partner and allowing your partner to see all of you and love you more for getting to know you on a deeper level, reaching a more meaningful, deeper understanding.

People always see therapy as something that means you are weak, spineless.
Ironically the fact that therapy does have that stigma and does make you so uncomfortable is all the more reason to go through with it. Strength comes from personal growth, you cannot grow unless you face your fears and deal with things that hold you back from being that man you want to be and are meant to be.

It takes courage and commitment aka massive balls, to work through mental crap in therapy, but it can work and can be beneficial in making you a better, stronger man.

[AdamAndWill]

(Adam) This again? Babe...you're doing way more than I expected, it's going way better than I expected...and January's a great month for a wedding. And if you get bored with therapy, you've got the premarital counseling at the church to amuse you lol - Love you...

[Borg69]

Fear is a good motivator. Once you're able to face those fears, accept them, and conquer them, you'll be unstoppable. They say some of the main things you need in a relationship is communication and compromise and honesty. This therapy is giving you ideal building blocks to the potential for lasting forever. It's a good thing! Don't view it as an attack or a punishment. The skills you're learning now will help you 10x in all aspects of life.

[MikeW]

I'd like to be supportive but TBH from what Will said in the OP, I'm not clear what is going on here. Apparently you (Will) did or said something (that you regard as "wrong") and you (both?) ended up in therapy (or couples therapy?) and the therapist said she wouldn't work with you (both?) unless you postponed your wedding? Do I have that right? And apparently you, Will, aren't happy about this at all but Adam is OK with it.

Without knowing either of you except from reading your posts here it is difficult to get a very clear sense of what this is all about. Therapists certainly have the right to set boundaries regarding their practice but, equally, we have a right to reject those boundaries and see if we can find someone else to work with us.

I was in therapy off and on for many years with different therapists and found it very valuable.

However, at one point I had to threaten one of my therapists with a law suit.

It was a bit complicated but the upshot was that at the end of one of our sessions she told me that she wasn't going to continue seeing me further, that this was our last session. I was shocked but, of course, at that point there was no place to even discuss let alone process my feelings about this abrupt termination. BTW, it wasn't like I had done or said anything in therapy that was inappropriate or threatening. She had just unilaterally decided not to work with me further. She had her own reasons but they had nothing to do with me.

At the time it happened I was so shocked I hardly knew what to say. I left but the more I thought about it the angrier I got. I'd been working with this therapist for over a year and was no where near complete. In any case, I sent her a strongly worded letter (this was pre-intenernet) and told her that I expected to have at least four more sessions with her to process this abrupt termination and that if she didn't comply I was prepared to seek damages either through the courts or through State regulations. Well, THAT got her attention! I have no idea if I had a case worthy of going before a judge but that wasn't the point, I was furious and needed some legal means of redress and that was what I came up with. In any case, she complied and we had four follow-up termination sessions.

I think what I'm really getting at here, Will, is that I (perhaps mistakenly) SENSE you have a LOT of very deep feelings about whatever this situation is and how it is impacting your life. I don't know what "mistake" you made (and I'm not asking you to tell me or us) but what I am suggesting is that if strong emotions are now coming up in regard to all this, you use the therapeutic situation as an opportunity to explore them. For example, it's quite OK to tell a therapist, "I hate being here and I hate you for making me postpone our wedding…" or whatever your truth is. Your "truth" is your truth, how you really feel, and you have as much right to feel the way you do as anyone else has a right to feel the way they do. You have every right to use a therapeutic situation to express those feelings so that they are up front, out in the open, without compromise or prettied up to be more 'acceptable' to anyone. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that a good therapist would encourage you toward safely expressing your naked truth. How can a therapeutic situation really "work" if the people participating in it are "afraid" of or in some way avoiding your truth (including you)?

Once your emotional truth is out there where everyone can look at it, THEN everyone (including you) can begin to look into where it is coming from, what is driving it, and see how much of the emotional intensity behind it has to do with the PRESENT (as opposed to the past). To me this is what therapy is for.

If I'm totally off the chart here, feel free to completely ignore these words. I'm just putting them out there with the intent of being supportive, fully realizing I have no idea exactly what is going on here.

[50Plus]

I'd like to be supportive but TBH from what Will said in the OP, I'm not clear what is going on here. Apparently you (Will) did or said something (that you regard as "wrong") and you (both?) ended up in therapy (or couples therapy?) and the therapist said she wouldn't work with you (both?) unless you postponed your wedding? Do I have that right? And apparently you, Will, aren't happy about this at all but Adam is OK with it.

Without knowing either of you except from reading your posts here it is difficult to get a very clear sense of what this is all about. Therapists certainly have the right to set boundaries regarding their practice but, equally, we have a right to reject those boundaries and see if we can find someone else to work with us.

Ironic that MikeW would start off like this. For it is how I would start off my post on this. But then I would diverge down a different path.

The remainder of my preface is: I am single. I have been engaged several times. I have never been married. I question the value of marriage.

I initially added a couple of questions, but then realized it could easily be construed as negative. I have decided to refrain from posting them. It is not to me to judge or question the decision of others - I will try and remember that on future posts, unless the question is obviously asking for my advice / opinion.

[AdamAndWill]

I'd like to be supportive but TBH from what Will said in the OP, I'm not clear what is going on here. Apparently you (Will) did or said something (that you regard as "wrong") and you (both?) ended up in therapy (or couples therapy?) and the therapist said she wouldn't work with you (both?) unless you postponed your wedding? Do I have that right? And apparently you, Will, aren't happy about this at all but Adam is OK with it.

Without knowing either of you except from reading your posts here it is difficult to get a very clear sense of what this is all about. Therapists certainly have the right to set boundaries regarding their practice but, equally, we have a right to reject those boundaries and see if we can find someone else to work with us.

I was in therapy off and on for many years with different therapists and found it very valuable.

However, at one point I had to threaten one of my therapists with a law suit.

It was a bit complicated but the upshot was that at the end of one of our sessions she told me that she wasn't going to continue seeing me further, that this was our last session. I was shocked but, of course, at that point there was no place to even discuss let alone process my feelings about this abrupt termination. BTW, it wasn't like I had done or said anything in therapy that was inappropriate or threatening. She had just unilaterally decided not to work with me further. She had her own reasons but they had nothing to do with me.

At the time it happened I was so shocked I hardly knew what to say. I left but the more I thought about it the angrier I got. I'd been working with this therapist for over a year and was no where near complete. In any case, I sent her a strongly worded letter (this was pre-intenernet) and told her that I expected to have at least four more sessions with her to process this abrupt termination and that if she didn't comply I was prepared to seek damages either through the courts or through State regulations. Well, THAT got her attention! I have no idea if I had a case worthy of going before a judge but that wasn't the point, I was furious and needed some legal means of redress and that was what I came up with. In any case, she complied and we had four follow-up termination sessions.

I think what I'm really getting at here, Will, is that I (perhaps mistakenly) SENSE you have a LOT of very deep feelings about whatever this situation is and how it is impacting your life. I don't know what "mistake" you made (and I'm not asking you to tell me or us) but what I am suggesting is that if strong emotions are now coming up in regard to all this, you use the therapeutic situation as an opportunity to explore them. For example, it's quite OK to tell a therapist, "I hate being here and I hate you for making me postpone our wedding…" or whatever your truth is. Your "truth" is your truth, how you really feel, and you have as much right to feel the way you do as anyone else has a right to feel the way they do. You have every right to use a therapeutic situation to express those feelings so that they are up front, out in the open, without compromise or prettied up to be more 'acceptable' to anyone. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that a good therapist would encourage you toward safely expressing your naked truth. How can a therapeutic situation really "work" if the people participating in it are "afraid" of or in some way avoiding your truth (including you)?

Once your emotional truth is out there where everyone can look at it, THEN everyone (including you) can begin to look into where it is coming from, what is driving it, and see how much of the emotional intensity behind it has to do with the PRESENT (as opposed to the past). To me this is what therapy is for.

If I'm totally off the chart here, feel free to completely ignore these words. I'm just putting them out there with the intent of being supportive, fully realizing I have no idea exactly what is going on here.

Will: I'm sorry for being so vague Mike, a lot of people here know the past situation from Adam's perspective and I guess I was venting in this post.

Adam and I have lived together for 5 1/2 years. I'm 7 years older than he is (he's 25, I'm 32). I've always looked at my behavior as being protective. He's always said that I'm jealous, possessive and try to micromanage his life. These were never major enough issues to drive us apart, but they've always been there.

He first joined GS a couple months ago. I didn't like the idea because the last time he was on a forum like this, he picked up a stalker who eventually showed up IRL and it got pretty ugly. So I went in and deleted his account. He rejoined - but then I got annoyed about someone he was PMing and deleted his account again.

During the second time he was on, Bowyn made a strong case for couples therapy. Adam was more upset with me than I'd ever seen him and so I agreed. After the initial evaluation, the therapist said that she felt like we had a lot of work to do before we were at a point where a marriage could work between us. Adam agreed with her, and that really shook me, all I could think about was the possibility of losing him. But I agreed, we started therapy, he rejoined GS.

Things are getting better. The therapist is very skillful, and she's led me around to looking at myself in a whole new light - and I don't like a lot of what I see. It's hard. Thus the whining.

A little over a week ago there was a troll on here posting weird shit. Adam posted a thread about my 3 year old nephew who we're in process of adopting. The troll sent Adam a disgusting PM with graphic sexual references to our little one. Adam freaked and self-deleted in just a knee jerk reaction.

A lot of the guys assumed I'd done it again - deleted him again - and I was reading one comment after another about it and feeling like a complete asshole just in general.

I know he likes the forum, but he was pretty freaked - so I offered for us to join as a couple. My willingness to do that made him so happy that I really felt ashamed of being such a jerk in the past.

When I wrote the post I was feeling scared and insecure I guess. Things are better between us than they've ever been and it's worth the therapy torture lol - it's just all so new for me. I've never been a very introspective person, and this is so damn hard.

Honestly? I guess the post was my discomfort with confronting my own behavior head on and seeing the need for change.

We've both recommitted to each other and in addition to therapy have started premarital counseling at our church. But I'm dealing with a lot of feelings, and sometimes, like in that post, they kind of overwhelm me.

[MikeW]

Will: I'm sorry for being so vague Mike, a lot of people here know the past situation from Adam's perspective and I guess I was venting in this post…..

Wow, I didn't expect such a detailed account. I knew a little bit of the background, as it pertains to the forum, but not the whole kitten and the caboodle. I'm not going to comment on your process because it looks like you're working that out. My only point, above, was that expressing a raw, naked emotion in a therapeutic situation can sometimes lead to clarity and deeper understanding.

I'm going to tangent a bit and talk about internet forums. I don't know what your experience has been or how long you've been in them. I've been hanging out in various forums for many years (have even been a moderator and an administrator a couple times).

In some ways forums are "all alike" but in other ways they can be very different. For example, almost any active forum has a kind of 'community feel' for the regulars. It isn't exactly accurate but it *feels* like we get to know one another, at least a little bit. Basically I think this is a good thing (especially for those of us like myself who haven't much of a 'real life' anyway LOL!). The down side of it though is sometimes it gets *too* personal. I've seen more than one occasion where all hell breaks loose and it begins to spill beyond the forum into RL. That's seldom a good thing. The exception can be "flesh meets" (aka forum meet-ups). I haven't met anyone from GS yet but on another gay forum I belong to, I've met several of the regular members (no, not for sex).

I think it is neat when gay couples join a forum like this (whether with one or two accounts). It can become a bit of a 'shared' interest.

I don't mind if either of you use this space as a place to vent, just be aware that what you're saying is public. It will get reactions. Moreover, it's always good to keep in mind that this is an open, public forum. Anyone can read it and there are almost always more lurkers than participants.