Shadow Wrote:To be honest I think to say that marriage doesn't work is rather skeptical - perhaps I'd agree with saying it doesn't work for everybody, but that's as far as I'd go ...
So I think that marriage as an arrangement and an institution is worth fighting for, for hetero- and homosexual couples alike ...
I think there are a number of things which undermine the stability of marriage, such as the relative ease of divorce, and I think that many people don't fully consider what getting married means, as you hear of people getting married for better tax benefits ... or getting married because it means they can reduce their health insurance contributions or similar (which to me is missing the point entirely) ... added to which of course, the social climate of present day first-world society tends to be much more forgiving and understanding, so there is far less stigma attached to all sorts of things both good and bad nowadays - homosexuality, single-mothers, divorce, etc., etc., than there has been historically ... and so I think perhaps many people's views on marriage are becoming less stringent and less formalised ... which is why the institution of marriage seems to be getting a bit shaky.
My my that was deep of me for a Monday morning !?!
Welcome back by the way GayComputerDude - we missed you  mile: xx.
!?!?! Shadow !?!?!
thanks shadow!
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GayComputerDude Wrote:recognition of what exactly?? it would seem to me that the recognition would be that which is between the 2 of you....no?
No!!
We are now legally allowed to be recognised in civil law much as married couples do
For instance,
Taken from Civil partnership or cohabiting - your rights | Yahoo! Finance
Civil partners will be able to make gifts or bequests to their partners with the benefit of IHT exemptions, as married couples do. They can also transfer assets to each other, such as property and company shares, without having to pay Capital Gains Tax. A civil partner is entitled to a share of an ex-partner's pension if the relationship is formally ended, for example by dissolution. If one of the partners dies before the other, the survivor is treated like a spouse if there is no will. The survivor will also inherit property and acquire pension rights as if he or she had been married. Neither partner is liable for the other's debts unless one acted as a guarantor for the other or agreed to a joint liability.
However, a civil partner can be liable for debts relating to council tax or a social fund loan.
If a couple split up and they disagree about who owns property, any goods and property acquired during the civil partnership are presumed to be owned jointly. Gifts and inherited goods belong to the person who received them. Goods acquired before the civil partnership belong to the person who acquired them.
Both civil partners have a right to remain in the home unless a court has ordered otherwise. If the home is sold a civil partner will usually have the right to continue to live in it unless they have agreed to the sale. They are not entitled to a share of the proceeds unless they are a joint owner. They may be able to claim a share in a settlement on the dissolution of a civil partnership.
"Civil partnerships undoubtedly provide greater financial security for both partners," says independent financial adviser Saran Allot Davey. "However, when the partnership comes to an end the sharing of the assets, insurances, and pensions have to be split as in the case of marriage in order to ensure the individuals have financial security out of the relationship. Financial advice is as important at this stage as it is at the outset."
You see before, if my partner were to pass away I would not have had legal right to my own house.
and so forth we basically get alot of rights that we never had before
I'm sure Derek or Frank would be able to enlighten you better than I could
xx
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Star Twister Wrote:No!!
We are now legally allowed to be recognised in civil law much as married couples do
For instance,
Taken from Civil partnership or cohabiting - your rights | Yahoo! Finance
Civil partners will be able to make gifts or bequests to their partners with the benefit of IHT exemptions, as married couples do. They can also transfer assets to each other, such as property and company shares, without having to pay Capital Gains Tax. A civil partner is entitled to a share of an ex-partner's pension if the relationship is formally ended, for example by dissolution. If one of the partners dies before the other, the survivor is treated like a spouse if there is no will. The survivor will also inherit property and acquire pension rights as if he or she had been married. Neither partner is liable for the other's debts unless one acted as a guarantor for the other or agreed to a joint liability.
However, a civil partner can be liable for debts relating to council tax or a social fund loan.
If a couple split up and they disagree about who owns property, any goods and property acquired during the civil partnership are presumed to be owned jointly. Gifts and inherited goods belong to the person who received them. Goods acquired before the civil partnership belong to the person who acquired them.
Both civil partners have a right to remain in the home unless a court has ordered otherwise. If the home is sold a civil partner will usually have the right to continue to live in it unless they have agreed to the sale. They are not entitled to a share of the proceeds unless they are a joint owner. They may be able to claim a share in a settlement on the dissolution of a civil partnership.
"Civil partnerships undoubtedly provide greater financial security for both partners," says independent financial adviser Saran Allot Davey. "However, when the partnership comes to an end the sharing of the assets, insurances, and pensions have to be split as in the case of marriage in order to ensure the individuals have financial security out of the relationship. Financial advice is as important at this stage as it is at the outset."
You see before, if my partner were to pass away I would not have had legal right to my own house.
and so forth we basically get alot of rights that we never had before
I'm sure Derek or Frank would be able to enlighten you better than I could
xx
ok i understand .. it's about money and government .. I get it
it shouldn't be .. but yes it is about that
even here you can't visit your partner in the hospital .. what is that all about?
and again .. I think .. isn't my friend right? take marriage OUT OF GOVERNMENT
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GayComputerDude Wrote:ok i understand .. it's about money and government .. I get it
it shouldn't be .. but yes it is about that
even here you can't visit your partner in the hospital .. what is that all about?
and again .. I think .. isn't my friend right? take marriage OUT OF GOVERNMENT
It's not about Money and Government, it's about equality we now have the same rights as a heterosexual married couple.
I did hear that you can't go to see your partner in hospital, it used to be like that here. I am sorry, it does seem so Archaic now
Like I said we are very lucky now that we have moved on, I think it may have to do with the fact that we are such a multi cultural society that things have changed....
"take marriage OUT OF GOVERNMENT" Will that ever happen ??
J
xxx
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Star Twister Wrote:It's not about Money and Government, it's about equality we now have the same rights as a heterosexual married couple.
I did hear that you can't go to see your partner in hospital, it used to be like that here. I am sorry, it does seem so Archaic now
Like I said we are very lucky now that we have moved on, I think it may have to do with the fact that we are such a multi cultural society that things have changed....
"take marriage OUT OF GOVERNMENT" Will that ever happen ??
J
xxx
no no .. I know marriage isn't about money and government .. you misunderstand me ..
it shouldn't be that way .. but what you said was about money and government
as far as the 2 of you .. you're fine .. but you're not getting the recognition of money and govt
does that make sense or did I miss your point?
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Star Twister Wrote:No!! We are now legally allowed to be recognised in civil law much as married couples do. For instance,
Taken from Civil partnership or cohabiting - your rights | Yahoo! Finance...
I'm sure Derek or Frank would be able to enlighten you better than I could
... No, I don't think I could. That's as good an explanation as I've seen. 
It's a choice. At least we now have one. People can choose to live together as cohabitees or to formalise the arrangement. Same opportunities for all, gay or straight. Fairness. A CP, or marriage where available to same-sex couples, bundles together some of the contracts one might have to take out for security in an unmarried relationship. It is a public statement of honour and intent to one's beloved. For the life of me I cannot see how anyone can sensibly suggest that same-sex marriage undermines marriage. If anything, it strengthens it as an institution by making it available to all those who wish to commit. It's a pity that Michael is no longer participating in these discussions. He would have plenty to say about marriage being so much a part of our expectation and culture as we grow up that to deny it to people on the basis of unfounded prejudice is inhumane.
Anyway, having been through the hell of divorce it's only fair that gay people can do the same 
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[FONT="]Frankly speaking, I never cared much about gay marriage until this election (San Francisco, U.S.A.). Until a few months ago, I asked my younger sister and closest friends for 30 years about their views on 'Proposition 8' (ban gay marriage by amending California Constitution) ; I found out that they do not treat me equally after all. [/FONT]
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[FONT="]My sister's excuse to support banning gay marriage is 'her children would get confused'. I guess I have to distant myself to her children even further in order to get away from being blamed if one of her kids turned out to be gay. As for my closest friends for over 30 years, one turned into a right-wing xxxhole and the other turned into a religious jerk. Both of them told me the same of stories about men with men is not natural, all these things about 'traditional marriage' is between a man and a woman, etc, etc. There is practically nothing new. The impression that they gave me is - I DON'T MIND that you are gay but don't you dare to take that marriage away from us Heterosexual People. YOU ARE DIFFERENT from us and therefore you don't deserve the same rights. BUT, I am a 'friend' of yours AND you should be so lucky.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Ironically, both of them have mistresses and hire prostitutes on a regularly basis. They are so hypocritical I wanted to vomit. Of course, our friendships are no longer the same. How could I pretend they are my best friends when they treated me like second class citizens? They are the one who helped the church to take away my rights (Yes on 8 Prop won, 52.5% supported it and 47.5% opposed) .[/FONT]
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[FONT="]I have been seeing my boy friend for over eight years and presently I don't want to marry him. But, it should a right that no one could take it away from me. Who has the right to tell me who I can and can't marry? I am an atheists and I don't have any kind of religion burdens. Most importantly, I don't want to have anything to do with the Church.[/FONT]
[FONT="] [/FONT]
[FONT="]Now that 'Yes on Prop 8' has passed and it means another battle has just begun. We will fight all the way to the end for our equalities. No doubt about it.[/FONT]
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sfgam, UGH, your post just saddens me so much!
The worse is that you have learned the true face of your best friends... I would stay around just to bug the fuck out of them! Bring up issues they dont want to discuss... make them sick of their own biases if it is possible. Try to keep an optimistic attitude. It must be tough especially assuming that your friends are in SF...
I saw that there have been some public outcry on the streets of CA but didnt see anything of SF... I believe that the mayor said he will continue handing out marriage certificates - which is just amazing and it seems that he has been a pretty strong advocate of crushing the ignorance of some...
Wish I was back there fighting the good fight!
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sfgam, I agree with fjp999 - that is really horrible and I'm sorry for your having had to go through it :frown:.
We have stumbled upon another area that's becoming an increasing thorn in the side of my calm, and that's the issue of money.
We pay our way like any other citizen of whatever community we live in - we get taxed, we're treated just like everybody else when it comes to taking our money away ... but then we're PUSHED away when it comes to HANDING out equality FROM our governments in so many areas, and that makes me sick.
It's VULPINE.
Aaaaaaaaargh :mad: *tears his hair out*.
!?!?! Shadow !?!?!
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