9/11

[LONDONER]

I'm a little surprised that no one has made any comment on this, after all, it was an event that has changed the world as we once knew it.

[MikeW]

Don't get me started. The events of 9/11 were orchestrated within the military industrial complex, intelligence/counter-intelligence. It was a false flag black-op. The buildings did not "collapse." This should be obvious to anyone watching the videos of them. The North and South tower explode from the core outward in a rapid bursts from roughly the impact floors downward. They're being turned to dust due to the high intensity of the explosives used. Huge hundred ton girders are being thrown across the street and empaled in adjacent buildings. Building 7, which was brought down later in the afternoon, was a more typical "implosion" demolition. All this can be verified. See Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth. All these buildings came down at or near "free fall" which is physically impossible *without* an accelerant being used to demolish the structural support.

For what happened at the Pentagon, watch "National Security Alert".

As for Shanksville, just do a google image search for "shanksville crater". It' obvious no plane crashed there. Cf:

[StingRay]

O boy. I still don't see how anyone in their right mind can believe stuff like that, Mike. What other govt conspiracies do you believe in? I know better than try to argue with someone who argues for a hobby. I dont trust the govt more than you do but believing they killed over 3000 people and destroyed billions in buildings and aircraft just to scare people takes a real warped mind to believe.

[Emiliano]

It was a terrible and frightening day :/
Sometimes it feels cathartic to talk about, sometimes it's just too unpleasant. I'm somewhere between the two this year.

[Iceblink]

I do not believe the conspiracy theories about our own government being responsible for the attack. What I do believe, however, is that we were lied to about certain parties being responsible in order to get us into a war and I believe that lying, cruel, inhumane, scum-bag, fucking worthless piece of shit Dick Cheney is a war criminal who should spend the rest of his days in prison.

[MikeW]

I don't want to argue it either. What other "government conspiracies" I *believe* is irrelevant. I don't "believe" 9/11 is a conspiracy -- I know it is, by definition. The question is, which "theory" concerning the events that unfolded that day, and who was responsible for them, is most accurate.

1: I did not say "the government" did it. Read carefully and consider what PNAC is, who was both a member of it and in what positions of authority that day (hint: Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Feith, Tenet, Muller, et al), and what PNAC's agenda was long before 9/11 happened. Cf: "Rebuilding America's Defenses". A full PDF of the document is online. Published in September 2000 it says, "Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event––like a new Pearl Harbor." Always follow the money. Also note not one person in a position of authority in the chain of command was held accountable for those events.

2: Regardless of who one "blames" reinforced steel structures have NEVER "collapsed" due to fire. Ever. But these buildings did not "collapse" -- that is the point. Listen to the Architects and Engineer's for 9/11 Truth's video presentations. They will explain why what we've been told happened is physically impossible *absent* incendiaries. Since explosives are *not* apart of the official narrative, the only logical conclusion is the truth is being covered up.

If you merely scoff without looking at the evidence and the credentials of those who stand behind it, *you* are the "conspiracy theorist" in the pejorative.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Well then I have a warped mind as well.

Whilst I'm not going to say that the government directly orchestrated the hijackings, I find it odd that hijacking rules of engagement that were set in the 1970's to deal with that era of hijackings (which meant having fighter craft flying along side hijacked planes) just stopped working.

Or that the FAA lost 4 planes in a single day and it took them so long to find them. The first one is acceptable, but after one plane flights at high speed into a building someone in the FAA should have been suspicious when the second, third and forth planes decided to stop doing whatever it is airliners are suppose to do - like stop sending their transponder signal.

Conveniently for the government a 'training exercise' was going on which apparently confused the Air force, the FAA, the Federal Government as to what was really happening, after all as the images of the first tower with a huge hole in its side and burning was going, no one was smart enough to call off the training exercise and move those assets back into the real world.

Then the whole 'lets hurry up and send the evidence to India and China and have it melted down.... meaning the scraps of the WTC.

The 9-11 commission was a fracking joke.

Then the Pentagon hole, prior to the roof collapse - no matter how you size it up a big arse passenger jet with wings and tail could not have fit into the hole.

One such site that covers the Pentagon hole: http://www.theforbiddenknowledge.com/har...boeing.htm



Whilst we can forgive the Twin Towers for collapsing, because lets face it they were hit hard in the initial collision, thus undoubtedly weakening the structure, and most likely the blast wave of impact did in fact knock of the fire coating of the steel structure. WTC 7 wasn't hit by any plane, and it wasn't weakened nor had its fire resistant coating removed by a huge jet fuel explosion.

Yet she collapsed rather neatly into her footprint:



Perhaps we live in an era were there are too many filmed demolitions that show a building falling into its own foot print this neatly -after days, weeks of careful planning and set up, thus folk are just skeptical that a natural collapse would be so non-chaotic and so tidy.

It doesn't help that the government treated a CRIMINAL ACT as an act of war. Doesn't help that the government covered up a whole lot of the evidence, hiding it from the public due to 'National Security'.

Not helpful that the Patriot Acts I and II had a bit longer history than what the Cheney Administration sold it as... Doesn't help that the whole of congress just signed it into law acting in fear without actually reading the damned documents.

When looking at a crime and determining who the perpetrators are, one looks at it from who gains the most.

Did Al Qaeda gain much from 9-11-01? Not really. If anything they ended up losing a lot.

The US government did get spectacular gains from this one event, not only did they get to start a war in Afghanistan, they also used it to finish up destroying the Saddam Regime. They also got a whole new department of more state police which given that crime rates of the early 21st century were already dropping like a stone in the states, the need for more police agencies wasn't there.

BTW, just for the record, crime rates today are at an all time low. honestly our police do not need military grade weapons for the defense of the streets against criminals, we don't need drones, we don't need automatic weapons, we don't need fracking tanks owned and operated by the police SWAT who are just itching for a good reason to use their new toys.

All of this militarizing of our civilian police force is coming to us because of the events of 9-11-01 and the patriot acts I and II which many aspects of those are still with us and quietly being reinstated year after year to 'protect us' from these Islamic terrorists.

Silverstein made a huge profit from that TWC deal. Granted he is a business man and most likely everything he touches turns to gold... but still the sales of the WTC so soon before 9-11-01, after spending decades as a 'government' operation, then being paid for removing a center which was woefully outdated and so chocked full of toxins that disassemble of those two towers would have cost far much more than anyone could afford - yet clean up of a 'disaster site' was far cheaper.



It is these things that leave people to believe that the conspiracy theory of Hijackers with box-cutters managed to hijack 4 planes in one day, and through some sort of miracle surpassing their ability to actually fly small personal aircraft they managed to fly at least three of those planes with the ease that comes with years of experience, not just a few days at flight school.

Go back to that picture of the Pentagon... Look how low that heavy, giant plane was flying to put a hole in the pentagon... Seriously at how fast was this thing flying, how steep a turn, to aim and hit that building with something a huge as a passenger jet takes a bit of skill, or dark miracle which apparently September 11 2001 was full of dark miracles.

The years after 9-11-01 the media and government chant was fear. The whole color coded Terrorist Threat thing was not about informing the public of the risks, it was about reminding everyone that Islamic Extremists are lurking in every shadow and we need our Government to protect us, thus need to give up a few more rights and freedoms in order to be 'safe':




It doesn't help that the Cheney (Bush) administration went from having Bin Laden as their number one goal, to 'I don't spend much time on Bin Laden'. But oh boy did we have a hard-on for Saddam, using 'sexed up' intel from the UK (which is the lap dog to the US in many manners) to justify Gulf War II, focusing attention on Iraq and leaving our military in Afghanistan to pretty much fend for themselves.

Then there are the Put Options: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/profiting-from-disaster/ Fit into this as well.


The list of 'irregularities' on 9-11-2001 and the days, weeks, months and even years after the events of that day paint a not too comfortable picture of a Government that is either totally unable to defend itself from attacks, or there was willful complacency which lead to 3000+ people dead and an America that has never recovered.

The failures of organizations within government, like the FAA, the Air force, the Secret Service to remove the President of these United States in a swift manner from a soft target in the initial opening of what was already pretty much obviously a terrorist attack since, all point at the government already knowing what was happening and thus arraigned for events to unfold as they did.

Sorry, tragic accident of a plane flying into one of the Twin Towers at high speed on a clear, sunny day just doesn't wash no matter how innocent that morning started to be.

No one was punished, fired, or questioned for the failures of systems and checks that had been in place for decades in dealing with hijacked planes is impressive, especially from a government that loves to scapegoat people for minor crap, let alone major crap.

[Iceblink]

I'm a little surprised that no one has made any comment on this, after all, it was an event that has changed the world as we once knew it.

I think you should see from the discussion here why you did not see comments on this, at least from U.S. members here, before you made this thread. The American public very much disagrees on the who, why, and what of 9/11. There is not much disagreement that our government did not act admirably in this event. 9/11 is not the tragedy that brings all Americans together in the 'proud to be an American, proud of country' way Pearl Harbor does. With what is happening now in Afghanistan and Iraq, you could view it as the U.S. did not win the war, but that is not entirely true. No matter how much things spiral out of control in those countries does not matter, the U.S. government won the war. We, the people of the U.S. people who were so willing to hand over our freedom and privacy following the attack, lost the war.

[MikeW]

...I find it odd that hijacking rules of engagement that were set in the 1970's to deal with that era of hijackings (which meant having fighter craft flying along side hijacked planes) just stopped working.....

The hijacking protocols did not "stop working". In June of 2001 they were *changed* such that DOD response was routed directly through the SecDef . Cf:

CHAIRMAN OF THE JOINT
CHIEFS OF STAFF
INSTRUCTION

J-3 CJCSI 3610.01A
DISTRIBUTION: A, B, C, J, S 1 June 2001
AIRCRAFT PIRACY (HIJACKING) AND DESTRUCTION OF DERELICT
AIRBORNE OBJECTS
References: See Enclosure D.

4. Policy.

a. Aircraft Piracy (Hijacking) of Civil and Military Aircraft. Pursuant
to references a and b, the Administrator, Federal Aviation Administration
(FAA), has exclusive responsibility to direct law enforcement activity
related to actual or attempted aircraft piracy (hijacking) in the “special
aircraft jurisdiction” of the United States. When requested by the
Administrator, Department of Defense will provide assistance to these
law enforcement efforts. Pursuant to reference c, the NMCC is the focal
point within Department of Defense for providing assistance. [COLOR="Red"]In the
event of a hijacking, the NMCC will be notified by the most expeditious
means by the FAA. The NMCC will, with the exception of immediate
responses as authorized by reference d, forward requests for DOD
assistance to the Secretary of Defense for approval.[/COLOR] DOD assistance to
the FAA will be provided in accordance with reference d. Additional
guidance is provided in Enclosure A.

d. DOD Directive 3025.15, 18 February 1997, “Military Assistance to
Civil Authorities”

(http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/cjcsd/c...10_01a.pdf)

[Bowyn Aerrow]

As for the image that the US Government is above harming its citizens for chits and giggles:

http://www.ranker.com/list/the-13-most-e...ert-wabash

How about operation Northwoods: http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLE...woods.html

I think I could dig up a few more historical accounts of just how the Federal Government is really willing and most able to bring harm (and death) to its citizens in order to push its agenda.

Understand the US is the one and only government to drop atomic bombs on civilians not just once, but twice.

Its the same government that has no problems with dumping thousands of tons of radioactive substances on civilians in the middle east. Depleted Uranium ammo and shells may not be highly radioactive individually, but after so many tons of of these material being shot all over the place in Iraq (and other places) we have to wonder about the mad men who have no problem unleashing such horrors on innocent people:

https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=depleted+uranium

Yes a person can carry a single round of DU in their pocket all of their life and the chance of it causing harm is super low - its a problem of amount, not individual shells/ammo/rounds.

The image of a Democratic and benevolent US government needs to stop.

The Justice system is unjust, 95+ cases end in plea bargaining, with many of those being innocent people pleading guilty.

The USA has more prisoners than anyplace on earth.

http://jonathanturley.org/2012/01/15/10-...-the-free/ Makes for an interesting read, which to me is a clear indication of where things are going in the USA.

Citizens wiretapping, and other civil rights violations is taking place more often.

The real horror is not that the government is doing this stuff, the real horror is that We The People are all 'meh' about it all.