How to counter this argument. need opinions

[dilema]

Hello everyone!

let me start by introducing myself. i'm a 19 years old gay man who have accepted my sexuality about three years ago, but since i live in a place where gays are not yet accepted, but are actually threatened and could face social isolation, i decided that i won't come out except for very close friends. i am however proud, in a sense, to be gay and consider it part of my identity and don't want it to change.

Now even though homosexuality isn't accepted here. it obviously exists and many people consider it an "issue" that needs to be resolved, which led to many discussions about gay rights.

The arguments that are exchanged, are mostly pretty standard, the gay community is accused of being unnatural and not what god intended, to which the response is that we are born that way and that society should accept that, same old arguments which we all know.

But then someone said something along the lines of, that if we now give gays their rights, next the pedophiles will demand theirs and later bestiality will be accepted and the world will be devilish or evil.

Now i know that this is pretty moronic comparison, which doesn't highlight the difference that in homosexuality both partners consents to their acts, and that it doesn't hurt anyone, but then I've done conducted little research and found out that there actually exists a group of pedophiles who want acceptance, who claim that they never molest but that they too are born that way, but even as a gay man i don't feel well about accepting them, i don't think that it is fundamentally the same as homosexuality, so i'd like to read what your opinion in this are.

Please excuse me if i wasn't clear because English is not my mother tongue, and please note that i am not a troll and im in no way comparing homosexuality to , i just want to learn your opinion on this and where do we draw a line and how to counter such arguments.

This may not be the ideal first post of a new member, but nice to meet you all and join this community

[ceez]

Hellow

Now i know that this is pretty moronic comparison, which doesn't highlight the difference that in homosexuality both partners consents to their acts, and that it doesn't hurt anyone

I think you did a pretty good job there, just remember that some people are so close minded they will refuse to listen and use this argument just to get you mad. it's like here where people will try to argue that all gay people are pedophiles but that's saying that little girls have never been molested by men. part of why I haven't come out yet is that I'm not sure if I will stay calm and use my brain or play bigot beat down.

[Virge]

It's pointless to argue with people who say such ridiculous false and ignorant things. Understand they are not saying them because they believe what they are saying. They are saying those things to justify the ignorant hatred they feel towards gay people. Arguing with them changes nothing in their mind.

Here's a good way to understand why you cannot win arguments with people like that.

Imagine you are carrying a bucket of clean water home for drinking. On the road you meet a man carry a bucket of shit he intends to dump in the river where you get your clean water. You fight to stop him from carrying the shit to the river. In the fight some of the shit falls in your bucket of water and all over yourself.

When you come to someone carrying a bucket of shit to dump in the river where you get water to drink. Never fight with them or you'll be covered with their shit. Let them dump their shit where they want. When you get more clean water to drink go above where they dump their shit. Always stay above people with buckets of shit.
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You cannot use facts and reason to combat hatred. You can list off the 1500 species of animals besides humans who have homosexuals in them. You can explain that god has never said anything about homosexuals, but men have used god's name to express their hatred. You can take away every excuse for their hate but they will not stop hating,

[Camfer]

If you choose to have these discussions, just ask the person to stay on the topic. You are only discussing gay rights, nothing more.

[Virge]

I don't know what nation you are in or how dangerous it would be for you to do what needs to be done to change people like that the only way they will learn to change.

You must humiliate them in front of other and have others laugh at them for their words and what they believe. In some nations that can get your killed. Here in the USA I can do it anytime one of them opens their mouth to me --- and the more people who are there --- the better.

You must know their religion better than they do so you can use it to humiliate them with it.

[Virge]

If you choose to have these discussions, just ask the person to stay on the topic. You are only discussing gay rights, nothing more.

You have committed a crime against rainbows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Camfer]

You have committed a crime against rainbows!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mwahahaha I was wondering when you'd notice.

Iceblink has called the rainbow police and now I am on the lam. If I'm lucky I'll end up in a county jail in western South Dakota.

[Virge]

mwahahaha I was wondering when you'd notice.

Iceblink has called the rainbow police and now I am on the lam. If I'm lucky I'll end up in a county jail in western South Dakota.

hahahhahahaha! Someone's gonna sic about a dozen drag queens dressed in body armor out to take you down! I just want to be there to video it and make it viral.

[meridannight]

The arguments that are exchanged, are mostly pretty standard, the gay community is accused of being unnatural and not what god intended, to which the response is that we are born that way and that society should accept that, same old arguments which we all know.

one thing that people should understand is that the question of ''unnatural'' is a subjective one. it, of course, feels unnatural for a heterosexual guy to have a sexual exchange with another man. in the same exact way it feels unnatural to me, a homosexual guy, to have sex with a woman. it's all kinds of unnatural and not normal to me to even think about that.

should i then deduce from my personal experience that all heterosexuality is unnatural and not normal? sounds ridiculous, right? but that's exactly what the people who pull the 'unnatural' card on homosexuality do. if they actually understood this, they would get it how it is wrong to claim that homosexuality is unnatural. but they either can't switch out of their own thing, or they don't want to.

but that is not any kind of argument at all. it is, in fact, the subjective sexual experience that is deemed either natural or unnatural in person. it's not sexuality itself. but good luck making them see that.

But then someone said something along the lines of, that if we now give gays their rights, next the pedophiles will demand theirs and later bestiality will be accepted and the world will be devilish or evil.

Now i know that this is pretty moronic comparison, which doesn't highlight the difference that in homosexuality both partners consents to their acts, and that it doesn't hurt anyone, but then I've done conducted little research and found out that there actually exists a group of pedophiles who want acceptance, who claim that they never molest but that they too are born that way, but even as a gay man i don't feel well about accepting them, i don't think that it is fundamentally the same as homosexuality, so i'd like to read what your opinion in this are.

this is very simple, in fact. homosexual intercourse is a consensual voluntary act between two men (for simplicity's sake) who understand what sex means. if it is not consensual, it is rape. is rape okay in our society? no.

having sex with children or with animals is not a consensual voluntary act between two parties. it can never be that. kids will never have an adequate understanding of what sex is, thus they cannot be said to ever willingly take part in it. thus, all such acts are, in actuality NOT consensual. and just like we have legislation against rape, another non-consensual sexual activity, just the same way we have legislation against having sex with children.

those who quote the pedophilia angle when arguing against legalizing homosexual marriage or homosexuality itself, have a few brain cells missing. they are comparing two incomparable things. if they cannot see the gaping difference between the two acts, they do have a neurological deficiency somewhere up there. in most cases, though, it is to do with reluctance against homosexuality and seeing it as disgusting. so they compare it to another disgusting act and hope that proves their case. it doesn't. it's a logical fallacy. but again, you cannot generally reason with people like that. they find homosexuality disgusting, always will, and you can't change that. they don't ever want to acknowledge that homosexuality could be 'normal' or 'acceptable'. you can't change the point of view of someone who wants to believe the contrary.

the only way to argue with them is to tell them what i just posted. that it is not in how they see homosexuality, but in how they want to see it. that's the real issue. but again, good luck pulling someone loose from their rigid belief system, identity, and unwillingness to admit they're wrong.

[Pix]

^^

That, so very much that. Children can't consent to sex anymore than they can sign contracts for the same reason (nor are their parents allowed to sign them over the military or pimp them out), and therefore pedophilia and such is a non issue as they can't consent no matter how much a pedophile wants them to (even if the child agrees to it it's not legal), for the same reason they can't sign a contract that recruits them into the military (no matter how many recruiters groom kids at schools to get them to sign when they legally can). Adult gays can sign contracts between each other but that doesn't mean children can therefore sign contracts because they're still not at the age of majority, the rights of gays does not extend to a "loophole" for child exploiters to use, nor does the military allowing gays to serve mean that therefore children can fight on the battlefield as well.

In addition you can also point out that back when gay marriage was unthinkable that it wasn't uncommon for underage weddings to take place. For example, Edgar Allen Poe married his 13-year-old cousin when he was 27 and society saw nothing wrong with it. What many would call incestuous pedophilia didn't allow for gay marriage, just as similar marriages in the Middle East today don't lead to acceptance of homosexuality there either. The reverse is also true, countries allowing for gay marriage have not devolved into places of child sex tourism or legalized pedophilia.

Btw, fun fact, many of the most hardcore states against gay marriage (such as South Carolina who won't even allow partnerships of any kind) give full marriage equality to marriage between first cousins and let them breed.