Having some doubts...

[reaper]

Hello everyone....

So I'll get down to it.

I went to the club last week and saw my buddy who I'm wanting to hook up with. The week before was a Halloween Party and things were unusually hot between us. We made plans to hang out but due to it being Halloween day (which neither of us was aware of while making the plans) we didn't.

So the night was a lot more cool than the week before, which I kind of expected it would be. We hung out and did our thing, but it was no love fest. (lol, I entertain myself)

Since we didn't hang out, I asked if he wanted to pick another day. I said I had off Tuesday and Friday.

He said he had stuff to do Tuesday, and kind of shrugged his shoulders and said he thought it was kind of weird traveling to the city just for sex.

I said, for me that will always be a part of it. Coming here (to the club), going to gay bars, or meeting someone there and dating them. Then I asked if he still wanted to?

He said yeah.

This ended that part of the conversation.

Later that night we did have a softer moment before we left, but I had no intention of bringing this up.

I mentioned in previous threads that this guy hooks up with another guy at the club. A guy who's my age. The dude is in an open marriage and they've been hooking up for a while.

Since I've taken an interest in this guy the other guy in the club who he has a relationship with has been much nicer to him. He told me that one night after they hooked up they ended up kissing for a while, which he said was not a typical thing they do.

He told me last week that the niceness continues.

The guy I want to hook up with probably likes the other guy more than he would admit. He likes the new kinder thing that has developed between them.

My interest in him led to the other guy pulling him a bit closer. Not away from me, just closer to him.

I'm not as sure as I was that we'll end up hooking up now. The "idea" of us hooking up has made his other relationship better. If we did hook up the new and improved relationship may go back to the way it was before.

My buddy is a smart guy, I'm sure he has thought of this as well.

The "idea" of the hookup may be more beneficial to him then us actually hooking up.

Granted, this may not be the exact case, but it is a possibility.

I'll be back Sunday and I will NOT ask him again about hanging out until the situation is right.

The next time will also be the last time.

I told him what I thought, and will have asked him if he wanted to hang a few times. One yes, one no, and whatever happens next!

I'm cool with us just being friends and doing our thing at the club, which I told him from the beginning. So if that's how it ends it's good with me. But the idea that he may be stringing me along to make someone else jealous won't sit well with me.

I'd look past it, but I'd be disappointed. Hopefully that's not the case. As things unfold the picture will become clearer.

[Virge]

It might be time for you to be considering an exit strategy and move on, Reaper.

I'm sorry I have been catching up with you in here lately. I've hand lots of crap going on and been busier than a triple pussied prostitute at a viagra convention. I'll be trying to stay in touch better.

[Borg69]

It's funny how guys like them seem to fear the "relationship" or "commitment" words clinging to their independence and freedom until someone else comes along and shakes the integrity of whatever bonds they deny they have with each other turning them into the very clingy, cloying jealous things the claim they're not by avoiding the commitment.

I'm guessing your friend is feeling pretty good with two guys vying for his attention. He's in a no lose situation.

I guess if I were you I'd play it calm, cool, and aloof/disinterested and leave the ball in his court- but not like I'm waiting around for him to decide. I'd probably also be evil enough to flirt enough to piss off the other guy. I'm evil like that.

[reaper]

It's funny how guys like them seem to fear the "relationship" or "commitment" words clinging to their independence and freedom until someone else comes along and shakes the integrity of whatever bonds they deny they have with each other turning them into the very clingy, cloying jealous things the claim they're not by avoiding the commitment.

I'm guessing your friend is feeling pretty good with two guys vying for his attention. He's in a no lose situation.

I guess if I were you I'd play it calm, cool, and aloof/disinterested and leave the ball in his court- but not like I'm waiting around for him to decide. I'd probably also be evil enough to flirt enough to piss off the other guy. I'm evil like that.

It is pretty ironic. Both have other relationships, the one guy married, and still...when someone else comes along the emotions they pretend not to have show through.

The guy I like does like the other guy more then he probably likes him. So he's in Heaven with all this...especially with the guy he likes showing him affection.

What you said is how I will play this. Only when the time is right, and I'll know when that is, will I ask about this again. Until then I'll let this rest. I'll also pull back some of the attention I give him.

I know he is interested, but I'm making it to easy and he's getting attention now from all sides.

If I were him I might drag my feet a bit as well....in the words of Charlie Sheen, at this moment he's WINNING!

After next week my training thing will be done...I will be able to drink, eat normal food at normal times of my choosing...I'll be free.

I plan to go to some gay bars and see what I find. Right now my only link to my newfound sexuality is this club.

The club will stay, but I need to branch out!

Edit: I don't want to flirt with him in front of the other guy. He won't really be jealous, but it'll make him nicer to the other guy which isn't good for me. Plus he's a friend of mine as well. I hate to say this, but he's actually really cool and hot, lol.

[Borg69]

You're hot, and a nice guy... you deserve better than groveling this guy for dregs and drama/baggage. Find someone special and have a moment with someone who is interested in being with you.

[Jake]

You're hot, and a nice guy... you deserve better than groveling this guy for dregs and drama/baggage. Find someone special and have a moment with someone who is interested in being with you.

Couldn't agree more with Borg69 here, it's true that he's a good looking guy, and both of you can keep on having your BDSM fun, but honestly, he's not a good fit if you want to be more involved in a relationship terms with someone. As you mentioned, you're training is slightly over so you can go back into a normal life, then yes, go ahead and squat some of gay bar/club or whatever gay in your area. However, be ready though, you will meet a lot of very uncommitted guys who will often go for the physical part of you. You spoke with my dude, you know what he had gone through and well, you're pretty much in the same situation. Be alert!

[Bowyn Aerrow]

In your case you are the opposing force to another, and both of you are vying for the attention of one man.

That one man will come to love one of you and despise the other.

The reality is that the majority of 'open' relationships ends up going south because one of the partners gets trapped between 'two masters'. This usually happens when there is a repeat 'other guy'.

Like it or not, sex is not all about lust and pleasure. Sex has evolved in humans to meet many other goals, such as to strengthen the emotional bond between mating pairs so they will get along long enough to raise offspring. Yes happens to gay men as well. They are human too.

As such sex isn't going to happen in a vacuum if you have it with the same person over and over again. Attachment is going to happen, bonding is going to happen.

Seems to me these other two are bonding and heading down an interesting road together.

You do not want to be part of that journey.

Frankly I have no idea if you really understand your own motives and drives to want to hang around your fuck toy and develop a 'buddy' relationship. Questions you need to ask yourself are:

1. Other than what you claim, have you done a fearless inventory of your emotions when it comes to this guy?
2. Why are you so keen to hang out with him outside of the sex club - no really weigh that?
3. What will that achieve - are your sure?
4. Why are you already emotionally invested to care if this other guy is pulling this 'friend' closer to him?

To be bluntly truthful; you're too hot for your own good.

Yes you are going to be used as tool to meet the ends of other people's goals.

You are also going to be played - There are many who will say yes to friendship simply to insure they can play more with you. They will lie to your face, they will play (act) like they care about your conversation, they will say 'oh this is so nice....' when all they are really thinking about is your abs, chest and dick.

You are also at the disadvantage of being naive of how the gay world works. Gay's are the most treacherous bitches you will ever meet. If it is known that you are fresh to the scene, they will play with your heart, trick you, and treat you like the dumb child while playing all nice to your face. They will look at you as a conquest, not as a human being.

I'm sorry, but you will find that most of the gays that will talk to you are only interested in one thing - your body. I have long watched a group of gays go all crazy friendly for a shirtless muscly body. It is sicking and only underscores all of the well know shallow that is part of the scene.

If you want 'just sex' then make that perfectly clear and just do sex at the sex club. You tell dude you don't want to know his name, his relationship status and don't want to see him outside of the club. You are there to fuck and/or be fucked and you do not want to be their friend. If you want friends you have Facebook.

If you want something more than just sex, say friendship, then you best better start with the friendship side of things first. And for God's sake, keep your shirt on or the guy is going to act that he cares about friendship because he wants to have sex with you. Why? Becuse gay = shallow in 95% of the cases you will meet out in those clubs, bars and dungeons.

Lastly, none of these guys are your friends. They are your acquaintances at best. Better learn the difference now. And I doubt that any of them has any interest in your well being. Nothing I have heard from your tales tell me they are your friend. Especilaly this guy who is clearly embarrassed about his own life style that you have to come up with careful lies if you meet his 'friends'.

I wouldn't be at all surprised they think of you as a piece of meat, and if they talk about you when you are not there is about your body, your dick, your ass and how ignorance (naive) you are and how nice it was to pop your cherry.

Look, I didn't say any of that there to be mean. I'm saying it because I have been a gay man from hella back and have been around a lot of groups of gays and I know exactly how they operate.

I'm sorry, you are in a vulnerable position, one that you are rushing into because you are all excited by the myths of the sex of the gay scene (especially the BDSM scene) with none of the experiences necessary to safely traverse this territory.

What really stuns me is that other older members here haven't warned you about the various dangers.

[Rareboy]

I'm with the move on crowd here.

The last thing that anyone needs (unless they get off on it) are headgames.

Be friends, but let him have the other guy. As for you.....I agree....time to branch out. Hopefully everything else out there won't seem too vanilla by comparison, but I don't sense from your posts that BDSM should entirely define your sexuality or your social life.

[reaper]

In your case you are the opposing force to another, and both of you are vying for the attention of one man.

That one man will come to love one of you and despise the other.

The reality is that the majority of 'open' relationships ends up going south because one of the partners gets trapped between 'two masters'. This usually happens when there is a repeat 'other guy'.

Like it or not, sex is not all about lust and pleasure. Sex has evolved in humans to meet many other goals, such as to strengthen the emotional bond between mating pairs so they will get along long enough to raise offspring. Yes happens to gay men as well. They are human too.

As such sex isn't going to happen in a vacuum if you have it with the same person over and over again. Attachment is going to happen, bonding is going to happen.

Seems to me these other two are bonding and heading down an interesting road together.

You do not want to be part of that journey.

Frankly I have no idea if you really understand your own motives and drives to want to hang around your fuck toy and develop a 'buddy' relationship. Questions you need to ask yourself are:

1. Other than what you claim, have you done a fearless inventory of your emotions when it comes to this guy?
2. Why are you so keen to hang out with him outside of the sex club - no really weigh that?
3. What will that achieve - are your sure?
4. Why are you already emotionally invested to care if this other guy is pulling this 'friend' closer to him?

To be bluntly truthful; you're too hot for your own good.

Yes you are going to be used as tool to meet the ends of other people's goals.

You are also going to be played - There are many who will say yes to friendship simply to insure they can play more with you. They will lie to your face, they will play (act) like they care about your conversation, they will say 'oh this is so nice....' when all they are really thinking about is your abs, chest and dick.

You are also at the disadvantage of being naive of how the gay world works. Gay's are the most treacherous bitches you will ever meet. If it is known that you are fresh to the scene, they will play with your heart, trick you, and treat you like the dumb child while playing all nice to your face. They will look at you as a conquest, not as a human being.

I'm sorry, but you will find that most of the gays that will talk to you are only interested in one thing - your body. I have long watched a group of gays go all crazy friendly for a shirtless muscly body. It is sicking and only underscores all of the well know shallow that is part of the scene.

If you want 'just sex' then make that perfectly clear and just do sex at the sex club. You tell dude you don't want to know his name, his relationship status and don't want to see him outside of the club. You are there to fuck and/or be fucked and you do not want to be their friend. If you want friends you have Facebook.

If you want something more than just sex, say friendship, then you best better start with the friendship side of things first. And for God's sake, keep your shirt on or the guy is going to act that he cares about friendship because he wants to have sex with you. Why? Becuse gay = shallow in 95% of the cases you will meet out in those clubs, bars and dungeons.

Lastly, none of these guys are your friends. They are your acquaintances at best. Better learn the difference now. And I doubt that any of them has any interest in your well being. Nothing I have heard from your tales tell me they are your friend. Especilaly this guy who is clearly embarrassed about his own life style that you have to come up with careful lies if you meet his 'friends'.

I wouldn't be at all surprised they think of you as a piece of meat, and if they talk about you when you are not there is about your body, your dick, your ass and how ignorance (naive) you are and how nice it was to pop your cherry.

Look, I didn't say any of that there to be mean. I'm saying it because I have been a gay man from hella back and have been around a lot of groups of gays and I know exactly how they operate.

I'm sorry, you are in a vulnerable position, one that you are rushing into because you are all excited by the myths of the sex of the gay scene (especially the BDSM scene) with none of the experiences necessary to safely traverse this territory.

What really stuns me is that other older members here haven't warned you about the various dangers.

This is a good post, I'll try to go through and answer these questions.

When it comes to the other relationship, the guy I'd like to hook up with does have feelings for the other guy. Probably more then he'd admit, although he has discussed it with me. Although the other guy is married and both have relationships outside each other, my observation has led me to believe that the my buddy (it's just easier to give him a title here) feels more for the other guy than the other guy feels for him. My interest in this guy has resulted in the other guy treating him a lot nicer.

As for my emotions with all of this....I have thought about this. It is a bit complex. I do like him, but I'm ok with the way this would work, or would have worked out. As of now, which I plan to change, this place is my only connection to my gay life.

I want to hang out with him outside the club for sex or sexual reasons. It's ironic since it is a sex club, but I don't actually have sex there, and I don't think he does either. The play is sexual, but it's not sex. Handjobs are as far as it goes with a scene. For me it's really about the bondage in that place.

I'm not really sure what I'll achieve. I just know what I want to do. I've never really done anything sexually with a guy and playing with him, which I already do in a sense, seems like a good fit. I'm comfortable with this guy.

And I don't really care that the other guy is pulling him closer in an emotional sense, but since I know how my buddy thinks of this other guy, I see it as something that may hurt my chances here. Even though he was "on board" with my idea. I'm sure the other guy treating him a lot better is more important to him. My interest in him was the cause of this. If we were to follow through, would that kindness he's now getting fade away? It may, and therefore it may be more beneficial for him to let this hang.

I'm also aware that when it comes to all of this, the club, and the gay scene in general, that I'm flying blind. I'm a perceptive person and can usually get a good sense of what's happening around me, so I rely on this and my gut feelings as I make my way.

I do realize that the few guys I know best at this place, my buddy, the guy he's banging, and another guy are acquaintances. They are actually good guys though. I'm pretty good at seeing through people and these guys do like me, and none of them really want me. My buddy has the other guy and then some, he's in no rush to hang out with me so sex doesn't drive our relationship (in it's simplest form). The guy he's banging has him and a husband, so he's not wanting me. And the owner is older and married.

I'm new to all this and want to have fun. I'm fine with casual not strings attached relationships, especially when I'm just starting to crawl. But casual to me has some limits. I hang out in a sex club, for me it's a bondage club...but it's a sex club. I've had several guys come up to me, guys who I never see partake in bondage, and want to hang out in the back. I'm not into that. Some dude grabbing my ass and 5 minutes later fuking around in the back room isn't my thing. That's to casual for my liking.

I think things will be better once I branch out from this place. I like the club a lot and will still go, but I won't need to keep all my eggs in one basket.

[princealbertofb]

Hello Reaper,
I think we've all been following your no strings attached involvement with this man with interest, and also how you've handled it, or tried to handle it.
Relationships are difficult in various fields, be it friendships, work relationships, meeting strangers etc... it's not necessarily going to be easy. In the same way a love / sex / hook up relationship is going to be pulling at some strings, whatever one thinks. You create a dependency on things and people you like, no matter how you look at it. Otherwise it would be total indifference and you'd be a psychopath, which you are not.

I think it is possible that the other guy (the one you're interested in for what you have together) had not foreseen the extra attention from his other paramour. Indeed, he's probably enjoying it;, especially if it was never expected.

We are also emotional people and likely to go that extra mile for someone we feel particularly comfortable with. Your mate didn't necessarily plan to use you as an item to make his other friend jealous and more interested... You do appear as an easier candidate for something durable though, since you, contrary to him, are no longer engaged to anyone and are totally free to enter a relationship, should you wish to. This may cause some anxiety in the other man.

The other guy doesn't necessarily get that you are not looking for "a relationship".

You could try to find a man who really isn't attached to someone else, in any way, if that's what you're looking for... but it may get a little boring once it becomes just sex for sex's sake... I don't know, I've not been there. Just something I think may happen.

In any case, take care of yourself. You're new to all this, and you won't get it right every time, which is part of the thrill and adventure of starting a new life and finding new people to relate with.