The mask of a masc

[Bhp91126]

Hi Dream. First of all, always, always just be yourself, never ever think you are worth less because you don't fit certain stereotypes that you see online, in porn or in m4m ads.

The people who ask for masc, straight acting blablabla are just insecure themselves and look for someone not to expose them. In many heads there is also the vicious stereotype of the loud, obnoxious, bitter queen when people think of fem guys. So, if you see an ad you're interested in, just reply and see where it goes.

Also, I hope you have gay friends or look to make some, so that you have normal social interactions that not always focus on sex or dating.

Just my 2cents

[LEANDRONJ]

I hate labels, I really do! I also love the shy quiet types, any height really! But for some weird reason I seem to attract the masculine macho types! I love me a sweet sensitive normal guy thou!

[DreamMaker]

Wow thank you guys so much for this lovely response.
I'm truly moved by the things you say and it seems like in this forum people are more mature and open.
I also find out that the problem in Israel is more visible because of the way people are treated in the military (BE A MAN!).

Brian, " I'd respond with 'No, I'm Brian'." FUCKIN LOVE IT.
CCRox, thank you, for everything you've written.

And thank you all for these lovely comments again, I love ya <3

[Bowyn Aerrow]

People who close off a segment of people because of a basic trait are missing out. How do they know there is not some woman that knocks their socks off and sweeps them off their feet?

I fixed your statement in a manner and form that should drive home exactly how this works.

And if you leap to the conclusion I just called you a woman, that is on you.

I'm pointing out that gay men are attracted to men, and everyone who has a problem with gay, often wonders why it is gay men block off 50% of the population and flat refuse to try woman.

Attraction to masculine men is pretty much the same process of gay men deciding that they prefer the company of men over women.

[Borg69]

The whole masc./fem thing is a hold-over from less educated, antiquated days of ignorance where life was essentially "survival of the fittest" and everything was decided by whom the strongest was - type of stereotypes.

Be evolved. Don't succumb to these types of generalities.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

I am a masculine gay man. AKA 'straight acting'.

I did try being with effeminate with my last two partners. The first relationship lasted only 6 months. Mind I set a new world's record and no one has been able to break that. I stayed in a relationship with him longer than anyone else. Mostly because yes I am that stupid.

The last was 14.5 years with an effeminate man taught me much about stuff I didn't want to know about...

After 48 years of life I have reached some conclusions based upon observation and life experiences. Mind I had already been in two relationships the day your mother pushed you out, had been doing the whole 'gay thing' for 5 years... So we are talking 29 years of experience and observation...

Most, not all, effeminate men have little to nothing in common with most, not all, straight acting men.

A straight acting man with an effeminate man end up living the 'hetero-normal' life style - which I guess for some or perhaps many the idea that there is a little lady at home who does his arts and crafts stuff and goes shopping while the other plays sports, works on the car, mows the lawn, hunts, camps whatever is a 'man' thing.

However a lot of the straight acting gay men I know about have this desire to be with a guy who shares their interests. Like hunting, camping, rock climbing, sports activities, shopping at Home Depot and drooling over the tools. Most think of gay relationships as two men who share these interests. We ain't man and woman working out the fundamentals of a two gender heterosexual relationship. We are two men who do man stuff together.

The two lifestyles of 'straight acting' and effeminate gay men is usually vastly different beyond who lisps a little and has weaker wrists.

Take the bathroom:

My bathroom is an explosion of 'product', gels, creams, goops, sprays - WTF is 'apple peel'? Every day I open up my medicine cabinet (we have two his and his, I get a shelf) I see this bottle labeled 'apple peel' - I opened it once and looked in side - not nary a single apple peel is in this thing - WTF is it?

When my ex moved in my bathroom went from a tidy space with most of the medicine cabinet empty space to clutter of stuff I have no idea what its supposed to do. I was also denied access to bar soap, told to stop using my safety razor, hell he even stood there and told me I was shaving wrong - The Hell? I'm supposed to use conditioner on my hair, and supposed to pluck that wild hair between my eye brows and supposed to use a special soap for the face and supposed to..... grrrr...

It doesn't end in the bathroom.

Suggest camping to an effeminate gay man - most will throw up their hands and say something like 'Gurl I don't do that'..... Followed by a big roll of the eyes that make it clear that while they do love the idea your a man, you are just too primitive and need to be 'fixed'.

I own three pairs of footwear, a (one) pair of tennis shoes, a (one) pair of work boots, a (one) pair of doc martins which are my 'dress shoes'.... My closet (we have two) has shoes two deep, none of which I wear because they are not my size... Most of which have been bought, worn once and just sit on my closet floor mocking me whilst my own footwear I store in a shoe box under my side of the bed.

I get lectured because I wear the same shoes day after day after day. I got lectured when my old tennis shoes which I wear in the garden were worn out. No I didn't need a 'new pair'.... And I wasn't too terribly amused to come home one day and find that my very comfortable tennis shoes had been thrown out and replaced with a new pair.

I get lectured because I loath pastels and prefer plaid. I have several shirts I will never wear bought for me because pink or red or teal is supposedly bringing out my eyes. Whatever, I wear clothes for warmth and because of decency laws - I'm not a fashion 'gurl'.

Most effeminate men are not going to like the lifestyle and habits of a straight acting male. Sorry, the two life styles are vastly different. Most straight acting dudes are not going to cotton to being 'changed'.

And then there is sex....

The general assumption when I go into any gay bar, club or scene where there are gay men is because I walk like a man, talk like a man, and behave like a man that I'm a total top and just want to bend over the nearest nelly queen and make them squeal like a pig while playing a banjo.

A lot of straight acting guys out there are not total tops - most are sliding scale of versatile with many being total bottoms in bed. Sadly this can't be said about effeminate guys who end up usually being total bottoms or 'power bottoms'. There appears to be a direct correlation between how much of a bottom one is based on how much femininity a guy has. Now I know this isn't true for all, I know some really nelly queens who never bottom and who are as weary of being cast in the bottom roll as I am weary of being cast in the top roll.

I know most of what I said sounds like stereotypes, however I hate to break the news to you but these 'stereotypes' are based on some rather large boulders of truth.

I hate to inform you of this, but most straight acting men are not wearing a mask. We are being what we are - dudes. Most of us dudes are not terribly into the whole 'gay scene' - you see us at the club or bar its because we are single and hoping that this will be the place we can meet another dude. Do yourself a favor and look at the car bumpers of effeminate men and straight acting men. Please to note that most effeminate men have a rainbow sticker, most straight acting men don't.

So there is another aspect to this, how 'proud' and 'out' and important the whole gay thing is to the two different groups of men.

So this isn't just a thing about behaviors and mannerisms on the surface, its a cultural difference which can be vastly different between 'masculine' and 'effeminate' guys.

Yes most masculine guys are going to shoot you down immediately, but then most of them have already been around and have discovered that effeminate guys have a different approach to life which doesn't mesh well with 'masculine' approach to life.

[DreamMaker]

Bowyn, I can't seem to agree. I'm so sad that you had this harsh experience with more feminine gay men but again, I feel like it's stereotyping.
Let's take myself for an example, I'm defintely not the manly society's stereotype (don't like sports or mechanics) but I'm also not very feminine gay stereotype (don't wear products/make up).
I'm just a HUMAN. That's my point here. I don't mind a guy liking his sports, in fact, I think it's cool/fun even to laugh about it together. I feel like, because I'm more sensitive than most "men" (which is false, it's just an expectation of men to not feel) than somehow I'm the feminine submissive one.
Yeah, I might not be able to lift you up on my arms. But if something will happen to you, I'll fight for your life like no other.
I have both in me. THATS THE THING. We all forget that we are never 100%. Even not 100% gay,

[JackTX]

I only realized this year how obsessed gay guys are with these terms. I had been somewhat out of the gay-online loop for a while though.

I understand it but also see why it's so frustrating to a lot of people. You're getting judged on your behavior as well as your looks as the first items on people's list.

I think a lot of gay guys sort of want a 'strong' man and they reach for the traditional/idealized versions of that. So to them, he HAS to have a deep voice, a beard that could stop a train, and a gaze that could scare off deer at 200 yards. They cannot fit feminine traits into this paradigm.

There's a lot of good advice above. Just be you; the alternative isn't pretty. If they don't like you, they weren't right for you

[Lexington]

As always, it works both ways. I've been told both my masculine AND feminine traits were both "learned behaviors" - that I adopted them in order to be accepted by different groups of people. My opinion? I'm usually too busy having a good time (with masculine or feminine or whatever type people) to give a flying rat's ass.

But that's me. Some guys really know what they want. And sometimes, what they want is very specific, and very actively excludes huge swaths of the available pool. I've met guys who steadfastly claim to only be interested in 18-to-21 hairless, extremely-well-hung, extremely-well-off super-intellectuals. And you know what? That's totally their call. As one of them put it, "I know precisely what I want, and I'll be fucked if I'm going to compromise on it." Yeah, he's not going to date much, especially since he's over 40, not all that much to look at, and unemployed. But he's not required to "lower his standards", even if it means he'll never get laid again. That's his decision, not anybody else's.

Lex

[kidchameleon]

I do think that at the end of the day we can't help who we are attracted to, and what traits we find the most desirable, but I think sometimes it can be more akin to a self-imposed comfort zone that actual desire. Like, when I was younger, I used to seek out men on the more masculine side of the spectrum, because I felt like a "manly man" would be able to make me feel more safe and secure. But by actually going out and dating people who were different, I realized that I didn't need that aspect in the relationship at all, and I was equally comfortable being the one who made my partner feel that way. Obviously, like all forms of variety, there are going to be people out there with very specific tastes - but it's just something we need to accept. You can't take it personally.