Ferguson (St. Louis) Missouri Riots

[East]

Go back and read what I wrote about Muslims and Islam. Everything I said was pro-Muslims as victims of an ideology that cannot ever move out of the 7th century because of the way that is is constructed around 164 commands from Allah's prophet that anyone changing one word or not observing every word should be put to death. Muslims are the world's greatest victims of ideological terrorism and have for 1300 years.

Have nothing at all against blacks -- but saying or inferring that does make it easier to marginalize me and the politically inconvenient and embarrassing facts and figures I've put up. But guess what? No matter what you call me or what you infer about me the facts and figures aren't going to change or go away.

I'm all open to looking for ways to solve the OBVIOUS problems facing blacks once we can all admit that the total end result of all efforts tried so far by our *wonderful * all * loving * Federal * government* have not only been disaster but hurt more than no help from them at all.

Virge...your post about NYC and blacks sounds like it could have been written over at Stormfront. They have lists similar to yours with "facts" about gays to prove this or that....

I almost did it but decided I don't want to go there....

Race threads never end well....

I assure you I can go the distance but I don't think it would make a bit of difference and will only cause a lot of very hard feelings...so I will have to digress and let you have your say unopposed....

[Virge]

The figures I used came from the first one that popped in a search that gave links back to NYT that I then googled and confirmed. I didn't use the most recent FBI stats hoping someone else would go looking for them and have the nerve to post them > they're worse due to national scale where cities in which blacks aren't minorities.

I would like a discussion focused on long range solutions and not relying on repeating more of the same things that have been tried for over half a century and have proven to have had just the opposite effect they were supposedly structured to have.

How do we fix this? it's certainly won't be fixed by not facing facts and trying to address them. Sprinkling pennies and nickels on it hasn't helped. Education? Yeah -- someone give me some good figures on the Dept of Education's success rate. D o you see what I mean? Blacks are more victims of the government that tells them it's going to help them more than some non existent mass of oppressive whities.

[East]

The figures I used came from the first one that popped in a search that gave links back to NYT that I then googled and confirmed. I didn't use the most recent FBI stats hoping someone else would go looking for them and have the nerve to post them > they're worse due to national scale where cities in which blacks aren't minorities.

I would like a discussion focused on long range solutions and not relying on repeating more of the same things that have been tried for over half a century and have proven to have had just the opposite effect they were supposedly structured to have.

How do we fix this? it's certainly won't be fixed by not facing facts and trying to address them. Sprinkling pennies and nickels on it hasn't helped. Education? Yeah -- someone give me some good figures on the Dept of Education's success rate. D o you see what I mean? Blacks are more victims of the government that tells them it's going to help them more than some non existent mass of oppressive whities.

The problem is.....there are other facts which can pretty much "prove" whatever point I want to make...and as long as we use the terms conservatives and/or liberals with negative connotations you will never get a good discussion. Pointing fingers in any political conversation will yield nothing...

I do have many straight Republican friends and there is one thing we all agree on...we are all being pitted against each other and the people pulling our strings are laughing all the way to the back....it is a great diversion...

[MikeW]

I do have many straight Republican friends and there is one thing we all agree on...we are all being pitted against each other and the people pulling our strings are laughing all the way to the back [sic, read BANK]....it is a great diversion...

EXACTLY

Virge, you're always talking about the two dimensionality of the Kinsey scale. What makes you think the right/left divide is any less two-dimensional, any less a tactic to keep the citizens of this country pointing political fingers at one another, rather than the top 10% who own damn near everything?

[ShiftyNJ]

EXACTLY

Virge, you're always talking about the two dimensionality of the Kinsey scale. What makes you think the right/left divide is any less two-dimensional, any less a tactic to keep the citizens of this country pointing political fingers at one another, rather than the top 10% who own damn near everything?

It ain't new, either.

"You start out in 1954 by saying, ‘N-----, n-----, n-----.’ By 1968 you can’t say ‘n-----’ — that hurts you. Backfires. So you say stuff like ‘forced busing,’ ‘states’ rights’ and all that stuff. You’re getting so abstract now you’re talking about cutting taxes, and all these things you’re talking about are totally economic things, and a byproduct of them is blacks get hurt worse than whites. And subconsciously maybe that is part of it. I’m not saying that.”

Reagan’s key political strategist, Lee Atwater, in a 1981 interview

[Virge]

The problem is.....there are other facts which can pretty much "prove" whatever point I want to make...and as long as we use the terms conservatives and/or liberals with negative connotations you will never get a good discussion. Pointing fingers in any political conversation will yield nothing...

I do have many straight Republican friends and there is one thing we all agree on...we are all being pitted against each other and the people pulling our strings are laughing all the way to the back....it is a great diversion...

you will get no argument from me on any of that -- and you you know it. I'm too sick and tired of the people (the one who Aike described who monopolize what's called "News" sources but are really just propaganda machines. But in the case of 2 recent things the liberals have completely dropped the ball... Ferguson is the most recent and I'll get to the other in a second.

First there's a point to discuss.
In discussing (trying to discuss) issues from a POV from the center with no consideration for liberal or conservative mantra I have noticed some things over and over and over and over. I mean it's so prevalent I have to sit back and laugh about it every time it shows up.

1. If I present facts that contradict the non-fact based beliefs of one party or the other I'm attacked -- not for presenting facts but for being an extremist of on the other other end of the political spectrum. Huh??? So... inconvenient and embarrassing facts is an act of extremism?

2. There's a real serious trend between left and right that is totally absurd and only creates more of a problem. Let's say that the left has most of the facts on their side in an issue. The right instinctively responds with a propaganda assault of totally bogus rhetoric, ignores the facts and creates an issue that doesn't exist out of thin air in order to remain relevant.

In my opinion from watching conservative and liberal reporting on Ferguson, the right has all the facts on their side and the left is throwing up dust storms to obscure the real issues at hand in order to instinctively oppose the right. Not only that, some of their news sources have stopped to levels that are IMO criminal. I'm speaking of....... The evening of the release of grand jury's findings NYT published the home address of Officer Darren Wilson and his pregnant wife but not deleting it before it was saved by several readers. REALLY? I heard a panel on CNBC discussing it as being "the people's right to know -- just like they should know the identities of the people (blacks) who testified before the grand jury and helped clear Officer Wilson of charges."

The left and the right and particularly their propaganda machines aren't the solutions for one problem.
They create, broaden and capitalize on all the problems.

"never let a good crisis go to waste." Saul Alinsky

So now let's get back to trying to find a solution to the next Ferguson. I vote to carry any person attempting to broaden and capitalize on it out in International waters and turning him into shark food. I say that because I'm an extreme middlist... hahahahahaha! I'm sick of them both. Use Aike's theory about terrorizing people until they take sides to make being extreme right or extreme left less attractive.

[Virge]

The 2nd issue where I think the left dropped the ball was all the revelations from Jonathan Gruber about the way the public was defrauded about ACA. But that's not a topic for this thread.

[ShiftyNJ]

A priest of my church, the Very Rev. Mike Kinman, is on the ground ministering directly to the people of Missouri. He writes: “I want the demonstrators to see the police that I know. And I want the police and their family and friends to see the demonstrators I know. I want them to see each other's humanity and beauty. I want them to see each other as I see them. And I want it to happen right now because it hurts so much that they can't.” Read More

[Virge]

MIke that's a cute graphic... but do you really think it will be any different under liberals or conservatives ---capitalists or communists? If so you better back up and double dose on the anti-niavety meds.

[East]

Virge...I haven't seen a single thing about Ferguson except for a few articles on the internet...

I was a political junkie once upon a time and was a member of political websites way before I ever stepped foot in a gay one....

...and I turned off the news years ago. Uh..FAUX "News" went to the Supreme Court and won the right to LIE! O M G

CNN became the missing young thin white woman network...24/7 vigils for anyone named Tiffany ....

I never watched MSNBC...I do not get a newsfeed on the internet...

They are brainwashing all of us...giving us talking points and disinformation....

I watch Bill Maher for entertainment and opinion and I read Bloomberg BusinessWeek for truly impartial news...

I do have to say one thing though...I have found that people who declare themselves centrist or in the middle rarely are. Almost every one of them rag on liberals and only pretend to have problems with conservatives. I have found that people who are TRULY in the middle don't say anything...you just figure it out on your own...it's easy peasy

I wrote THIS (below) on another site recently...it is the truth....

Back in 2004 in order to get past having to defend indefensible positions...people on every political site I visited who had been rabid neo cons and were CLEARLY far right came out as "centrists" in the period of about a week....en masse...It was an intentional disinformational talking point. As they were pretty much categorically dismissed they thought declaring themselves as centrists would make their position somehow supremely correct...LOL

Since then I have paid attention to people who are "in the center"...they rarely are....

Liberals tried it too...some called themselves progressives....

It was at least closer to the truth