Came out to my pastor...

[chibigiraffe]

Hope this is not too long...

So I officially came out to my pastor (I say "officially" because when my father first heard of my "homosexual tendencies" a few months ago, he blabbed about it to my pastor). It was a little awkward but I had to do it. I am (now was) very active in the church (choir, praise team, usher board, and even a deacon) so I felt I at least had to say something.

Through coming to terms with my sexuality, I was offered an actual reason to study the bible. After learning about all the different ways there are to interpret the "clobber passages", I then started to reconsider a boat load of other things about the bible. Even as a child, I never really understood why people would trust some old book anyways. So after studying it and seeing all the contradictions and learning of how it came to be, I lost all faith in the book. During that time I considered myself a spiritual theist. But then I thought "why do i believe in the god of the bible when i don't believe in the bible?" So I started asking about the existence of God altogether and eventually became an atheist.

After that I started to hate singing in the choir. I just couldn't force my lips to utter the words "god is good" or anything like that because i knew that deep inside I didn't even believe in any god, especially not the one described in the bible.

Coming out to my pastor was a bit weird. He is a nice guy but he seems kinda deceitful. I already knew he was very homophobic. He preaches against it all the time (very poorly i might add). But i was tired of working in the church, and I definitely didn't want to work under him.

He started off asking me about Sodom and Gomorrah. I was extremely put-off by this because I honestly thought he was smarter than that, but apparently not if he thought that was gonna work. Maybe he thought I was the idiot. Anyways, i told him how I thought the story was about wickedness in general and that the "sin" of homosexuality wasn't even brought up anytime throughout the bible when referring to this story.

He went on and on about the bible and eventually i told him that i didn't even believe in the bible or god or the devil. I told him that the god i was raised to believe in would have stepped in some time in my 22 years of praying, and pleading, and crying to "deliver" me but he didn't. either he didn't care that i was gay or didn't care about me at all.

He ended the conversation cheaply and that was that. I am glad that I don't have to act and put on this facade at church anymore. So, including my pastor (ex?), my immediate family are the only ones who know. I think I'm ready to come out to everyone else now...

[ShiftyNJ]

If you consider yourself an atheist and don't plan to stay involved there, why even tell him about it?

[SilverBullet]

I must say, talking with pastors can and usually is an interesting thing. Your right on the sodom and gomorrah being about general evil. The men wanted to have sex with all that moved including the angels as they attempted to rape them. Congratulations on the comeing out MORE aspect thats always hard no matter what ^_^.

[MikeW]

If you consider yourself an atheist and don't plan to stay involved there, why even tell him about it?

I can understand [MENTION=22088]chibigiraffe[/MENTION] wanting closure with this. Being a member of the church was a large part of his social life -- a social life which theoretically could have continued had the church's attitude toward his sexuality made that impossible. I also think pastors need to know how these beliefs and attitudes affect their congregations, make life a living hell for some of us.

Anyway, I hear you OP. Where we differ is, although I've ditched the idea of a biblical God, I've not ditched the idea that there is a "something" that is greater than we are. All religions are sets of myths, symbols and rituals -- the question is, is there some underlying truth that can be known, but is not limited to or by any one particular symbol set?

My experiential answer is "yes"… but YMMV.

[CellarDweller]

Congrats on the coming out, and I hope you walk away from that church.

If you are truly interested in attending, there are churches that are "open and affirming" and will accept you. Just search for them on Google.

[Camfer]

He's not your pastor. He's your former pastor.

[ShiftyNJ]

I can understand @chibigiraffe wanting closure with this. Being a member of the church was a large part of his social life -- a social life which theoretically could have continued had the church's attitude toward his sexuality made that impossible. I also think pastors need to know how these beliefs and attitudes affect their congregations, make life a living hell for some of us.

Anyway, I hear you OP. Where we differ is, although I've ditched the idea of a biblical God, I've not ditched the idea that there is a "something" that is greater than we are. All religions are sets of myths, symbols and rituals -- the question is, is there some underlying truth that can be known, but is not limited to or by any one particular symbol set?

My experiential answer is "yes"… but YMMV.

That makes sense. Clergy sometimes get too caught up in their own aura and forget about the larger one. Reminded of this scene:



We're close to the same page ... I feel like all religion is man's flawed attempt to explain what cannot be explained. At it's best it can help you be a better person. At its worst....

[SilverBullet]

"Anyway, I hear you OP. Where we differ is, although I've ditched the idea of a biblical God, I've not ditched the idea that there is a "something" that is greater than we are."

I agree fully, I believe the bible was translated, re translated multiple times often by individuals with much to gain or loose and from a (mostly?) dead language.
If the Dragons, cockatrice, unicorns etc etc don't get to you then the above fact should.
Then once you read the old testament and look at the new testament you start to question if its the same god IE old testament, sure gays are to be put to death, so are non virgin women on their wedding night, so are those of different religions, so are those that disobey their priest so are the children that curse their parents (me and my dad had our share of fights and still love one another, im glad he never put me to death!) those that etc etc... then slavery is perfectly fine, beating your slave is fine (in fact so long as your slaves survive for 2 days after the beating you haven't broken a law) then of course there is the one passage where God was with the people but they still lost because the enemy had "chariots of Iron" ... I mean.. God is god... and he cant deal with iron chariots O_O.. wth...

One question and one scientific hole keep me believing in a higher power.

If I were to walk into a unknown desert vast and bare with the exception of a odd shadow cast from the bottom of a dune. Upon inspection I notice Its a car, fully functioning to the best of my knowledge, fuel in the tank and everything. Would a reasonable person conclude a explosion of unimaginable magnitude from an unknown source made of matter that doesn't yet exist cascade and domino to a point that this complex car would form, which would also mean the definition of the second law of thermodynamics needs to change because as it stands it not only covers the balance of energy but entropy also means order going to disorder.
"The entropy of an isolated system not in equilibrium will tend to increase over time, approaching a maximum value at equilibrium."

I believe a reasonable person would conclude the car is complex and so it was crafted/designed by intelligence. When you compare the car to all existence and most especially life I think its equally unreasonable or reasonable that a higher power exists as it is that a grand explosion of nothing made everything. So I sit on the fence but lean for the moment to intelligent design .

[chibigiraffe]

I believe a reasonable person would conclude the car is complex and so it was crafted/designed by intelligence. When you compare the car to all existence and most especially life I think its equally unreasonable or reasonable that a higher power exists as it is that a grand explosion of nothing made everything. So I sit on the fence but lean for the moment to intelligent design .

i understand this, but a car (which we all know and have proof of its design process, we have seen blueprints for car designs and so on) and the universe (which we still don't everything about) are two different things. I don't see how you can compare them so easily.

I'm fine not knowing how exactly the universe and the earth came to be. yeah it would be great to know (and would certainly help shut up religious fanatics) but knowing that doesn't exactly change anything, does it?...

[chibigiraffe]

I've not ditched the idea that there is a "something" that is greater than we are. All religions are sets of myths, symbols and rituals -- the question is, is there some underlying truth that can be known, but is not limited to or by any one particular symbol set?

My experiential answer is "yes"… but YMMV.

i'm not an anti-theist, just an atheist. im just not convinced that there is anything supernatural. if there is, then i would sure like to know. i'm always open to learning new things about the world i live in (maybe that's why i was so accepting of atheism) but when you get to the root of most religions, their worship derived from things like the sun rising and setting and stuff like that. we have scientific explanations for a lot of this stuff. we may not know everything as a species, i feel like we know enough to dispose of most of the major religions in the world today.

i feel that the connection we all have with one another along with the universe and the stars is "spiritual" enough. it just seems like the whole notion of a god is irrat5ional to me. people say "if there is no god who created everything, everything has to have a beginning?" and i would ask right back "who created the god?" then that will lead to "who created the thing that created god" and will just lead into a big mess... idk...