Came out to my pastor...

[LJay]

To me, the OP's pastor is not about religion, he is about church. They are two very different things.

[SilverBullet]

i understand this, but a car (which we all know and have proof of its design process, we have seen blueprints for car designs and so on) and the universe (which we still don't everything about) are two different things. I don't see how you can compare them so easily.

I'm fine not knowing how exactly the universe and the earth came to be. yeah it would be great to know (and would certainly help shut up religious fanatics) but knowing that doesn't exactly change anything, does it?...

The car was simply an example of intelligent design you can insert w/e you like into its place . Alien tech may be a better albeit more far fetched example but if found we would have no blueprints and probably little to no idea of how it works or what it does but we could probably tell its complex and designed rather than randomly assembled by a major event before matter existed.
Wasn't trying to guide or influence your decision, just showing why I still believe .

[Virge]

So I sit on the fence but lean for the moment to intelligent design .

I'm going to assume you really don't know what "intelligent design" was about or who invented it or how it was unmasked it federal court with a very politically conservative judge to be a total hoax and the men behind it could have been nailed to their crosses for perjury in his court.

Here's Judge John Jones telling it in his own words... Intelligent design is not only a joke -- it was put together with the deliberate intentions of deceiving people.




Intelligent Design came from the people at the Discovery Institute. Their more popular publication is called "The Wedge" now in its 4th publication and found in nearly every fundamentalist church and the homes of many who attend them. It's an outline of their plan to make christian fundamentalism the dominant force controlling medicine, sciences, media, courts, technology, government and law enforcement.

Find that hard to believe? Is this a conspiracy theory? Go to this link and scroll down 3 pages past the cover and title page to see their 5 year and twenty year goals for turning the USA into a theocracy.

[SilverBullet]

Your right, had no idea it was a big thing. :S
When I said intelligent design I meant it in its most basic meaning IE designed by intelligence. I didn't take a massive ideal from someone else and add meaning to the words.

Left with the ideals of life taking shape from the big bang which conflicts with other sciences OR life started by some other intelligence such as alien or some higher power (or even computer simulation to those that believe in the matrix) *Which all these ends have creation via intelligence* I lean to the later even though I vehemently admit all options are far fetched and hard to believe, comically so at points! I guess its pick your poison but at the end of the day I feel all choices are shots in the dark as we don't know and I believe I have more ammo with the later. When I say intelligent design though sorry if I misuse/misused it and OP I have derailed your thread :terribly-sorry-smil

I thought it was awesome that you had the umph to come out to your pastor ESPECIALLY knowing his thoughts on the matter!

[Rareboy]

i'm not an anti-theist, just an atheist. im just not convinced that there is anything supernatural. if there is, then i would sure like to know. i'm always open to learning new things about the world i live in (maybe that's why i was so accepting of atheism) but when you get to the root of most religions, their worship derived from things like the sun rising and setting and stuff like that. we have scientific explanations for a lot of this stuff. we may not know everything as a species, i feel like we know enough to dispose of most of the major religions in the world today.

i feel that the connection we all have with one another along with the universe and the stars is "spiritual" enough. it just seems like the whole notion of a god is irrat5ional to me. people say "if there is no god who created everything, everything has to have a beginning?" and i would ask right back "who created the god?" then that will lead to "who created the thing that created god" and will just lead into a big mess... idk...

We are all made of stars. Does matter have memory? Perhaps. We are after all, materially connected to everything that has gone before and everything that is to come.

[Virge]

Your right, had no idea it was a big thing. :S
When I said intelligent design I meant it in its most basic meaning IE designed by intelligence. I didn't take a massive ideal from someone else and add meaning to the words. When I say intelligent design though sorry if I misuse/misused it and OP I have derailed your thread.

Don't feel bad about it! Like I said in my 1st sentence I assumed you didn't know what intelligence design really was and that's not saying you are not smart. You just didn't know. hahaha! It just made sense that if you had known what intelligent design really was you'd have never put those words together in a comment. The defeat for Intelligent design in the Kitzmiller v Dover trial was so bad that the men from the Discovery Institute have never attempted to appeal to a higher court. In nice words the judge told them they were real lucky he wasn't throwing them in jail indefinitely -- without trial -- for contempt of court for the lies they told.

[chibigiraffe]

When I say intelligent design though sorry if I misuse/misused it and OP I have derailed your thread :terribly-sorry-smil

no prob. i don't mind other peoples faith, just as long they don't attempt to push it on me. I am always going to be open for discussion about the issue.

[Hardheaded1]

From reading the OP, I gathered he had walked away from his faith, but not his church. His moment of "truth" occurred when he informed his pastor and the community, or at least it's head, made him unwelcome. If this is true, it is true for more than a few agnostics or atheists still in the pew.

And, if Usher Board is an indication that the OP attended a black church, his options are pretty limited unless he leaves altogether his traditions to strike out for completely new horizons. As it is, he has expressed no interest in continuing.

I've known people who grew past their faith, but still remained due to social ties, staying in the pew, reciting creeds they didn't believe, etc.

I wish for the OP the journey that will lead him to peace. I still hold my faith and do not see the Bible as some literal recipe book for life, but a collection of wisdom literature. For me, God is in that wisdom.