Why I like older gay men

[Virge]

One conversation I had with a guy in his 90s blew me away... I should have recorded it. He was a Portuguese orphan who signed on as a cabin boy on an English ship, met his "first mate" in a Japanese POW camp and was with him for something like 30 years and went on to become one of the best known merchant marine captains of the US. He didn't learn to drive until he was in his late 60s but had a huge globe with small flags on pins showing every port he'd been in and there were few he hadn't been in. He was amazed with the word, 'gay' and laughed about it in a weird way...saying "we had no name for it other than men loving men."

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Don't rely too much on us old guys for 'truths'.

Human memory is a tricky thing. Sure we make is sound like it was all fun and games and awesomeness, but that is the trick of memory and a lot of infilling of missing data.

Another aspect here is that we of older generations see contemporary issues in totally different ways. Take HIV/AIDS. most of us who went through the dark days of the initial outbreak of the plague still fear it a bit more and feel it is a death sentence. You most likely cannot relate to HIV in the same way we can. Same thing applies to all of the other gay related stuff.

While it may make for interesting stories, I fear that the deeper meaning of 'shit' just is lost in translation.

Take Bill Clinton and Don't Ask, Don't Tell. A lot of gays look back at that as Bill being a wimp. No it was in reality a huge step that laid the foundation for today's open policy in the military. We tend to forget that acceptance and tolerance of LGBT back in the days of Clinton were far less than 50% unlike today were we have above 50% tolerance and acceptance.

I see too many of my own generation who lived through that period seeing it myopically, forgetting the underlying politics and pressures and seeing DADT for what it really was, a large step forward.

So don't rely on our memories of events, or our feelings on stuff thus our retellings being 100% accurate.

Like Stonewall. The Riots were NOT Gay - gay stepped in later, Stonewall was about cross dressing, sparked by the arrest of cross dressers wearing too much woman's clothing. Today the history books and even a lot of the older gays claim it started of as a gay rights thing from the start. Propaganda has bent the memories of the generations.

[dynamodean]

I love listening to older gay men share their stories. I have a gay uncle whom I look up to and was very instrumental in helping my coming out as a teenager. His life stories and experiences never cease to fascinate me. The difficult times, the adversity, the pushback, and the triumphs...so much to share and I just absorb it all like a sponge. I wish I had more older gay men in my life.

[Virge]

Don't rely too much on us old guys for 'truths'.
Human memory is a tricky thing. Sure we make is sound like it was all fun and games and awesomeness, but that is the trick of memory and a lot of infilling of missing data.
So don't rely on our memories of events, or our feelings on stuff thus our retellings being 100% accurate.

[SIZE="4"][COLOR="Red"]Yeh... and it's pretty funny how those words apply to the rest of you comment.

I was real confused about the rest of your comment... Then I found the two christmas turkeys you yanked the "more full of shit than" out of.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Take Bill Clinton and Don't Ask, Don't Tell. A lot of gays look back at that as Bill being a wimp. No it was in reality a huge step that laid the foundation for today's open policy in the military. We tend to forget that acceptance and tolerance of LGBT back in the days of Clinton were far less than 50% unlike today were we have above 50% tolerance and acceptance.
I see too many of my own generation who lived through that period seeing it myopically, forgetting the underlying politics and pressures and seeing DADT for what it really was, a large step forward.

[SIZE="4"][COLOR="Red"]I've never talked to one gay person who was in the military during Clinton's DADT who shares that opinion. I'm one of them. In fact in the FIRST YEAR after DADT was initiated gays being booted out skyrocketed over 300%. I knew three guys who were discharged because of it. I was real lucky I wasn't and can only give credit for that to the fact that when rumors started about me I was called up to see the CO and HE came out to me and told me how to deal with it.


And this next bit on Stonewall blew me away.... [/COLOR][/SIZE]

Like Stonewall. The Riots were NOT Gay - gay stepped in later, Stonewall was about cross dressing, sparked by the arrest of cross dressers wearing too much woman's clothing. Today the history books and even a lot of the older gays claim it started of as a gay rights thing from the start. Propaganda has bent the memories of the generations.

I've read A LOT on Stonewall -- including a huge stack of magazines from that period -- and about every account of the events I could find on the internet by the people who were there, saw it and were in it. Nowhere in all of that reading did I come across one person saying it was about cross dressing, sparked by the arrest of cross dressers wearing too much woman's clothing. Not even the drag queens who were there came close to agreeing with you on that.

[edhued]

I like them in a porny mode and not
They have a lot to offer, especially with their history and the stories they tell. Although sometimes they aren't 100% true, but hey it's fun to listen to how the "Old days" were. There is no way in hell that I want to to live in the old days, even though they might seems better just because the history and what not; but knowing the history and living your age and time have a special flavor of mystery.

On the other hand, did you meet the grumpy old man that blames our generation for being useless and how the old days are better?

[princealbertofb]

I like them in a porny mode and not
They have a lot to offer, especially with their history and the stories they tell. Although sometimes they aren't 100% true, but hey it's fun to listen to how the "Old days" were. There is no way in hell that I want to to live in the old days, even though they might seems better just because the history and what not; but knowing the history and living your age and time have a special flavor of mystery.

On the other hand, did you meet the grumpy old man that blames our generation for being useless and how the old days are better?

Yes, I'm guessing those grumpy old ones exist, but not just in the gay world, anyway. There have been a spate of programmes and documentaries lately asking the older gays to tell their story. One such documentary in France was called Les Invisibles, the Invisible Ones, because, to the documentary makers mind, these were the people who'd fought for all these rights but who'd been forgotten, or those who'd had to live their gay lives in hiding, in closets of all shapes and sizes. Now that they're older, they've become invisible again. Not in the mainstream media. True enough, our current liberties came at a price, not always one that is recognised. But then again, all of our rights came at a price, so let's not let anyone or any government rob us of them.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2399533/

[Virge]

oh yeah, that grumpy old man...........

Yeh but I found out something.... they didn't become old then become grumpy.
They were that way from the day they were born.

[edhued]

Yes, I'm guessing those grumpy old ones exist, but not just in the gay world, anyway. There have been a spate of programmes and documentaries lately asking the older gays to tell their story. One such documentary in France was called Les Invisibles, the Invisible Ones, because, to the documentary makers mind, these were the people who'd fought for all these rights but who'd been forgotten, or those who'd had to live their gay lives in hiding, in closets of all shapes and sizes. Now that they're older, they've become invisible again. Not in the mainstream media. True enough, our current liberties came at a price, not always one that is recognised. But then again, all of our rights came at a price, so let's not let anyone or any government rob us of them.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2399533/

I heard about that documentary and I find the idea is interesting, but once again I didn't watch it because documentaries aren't my favorite. To me almost every generation (gay or straight) has to fight for something, and at the same time they have to learn from the history of others. We all fight for a change, either if it's something that takes one day or something that takes years. But then again, I'm just a young man that thinks that he knows everything in life :biggrin:

[princealbertofb]

@East ............. that's exactly what I'm talking about. Most of the things I say in here that make me seem smart are just me passing on advice from older guys. Most of the things I've learned from them have been so huge they're going to stick with me forever.

I forgot to mention that I love the old lingo and code words they used back then. Last week we got a long talk on the gay art of "dropping hairpins" --- being able to talk about a subject without mentioning it which comes from the days when it was dangerous to come right out and tell a guy you were attracted to that you were attracted to him.

What about Polari?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polari

[ShiftyNJ]

If you never read them, Ethan Mordden's "buddies" series of novels give an interesting look at gay life in NYC from the 1970s-2000s through the experiences of a group of friends. Titles are:
- Buddies
- Everybody Loves You
- I've A Feeling We're Not in Kansas Anymore
- Some Men Are Lookers
- How's Your Romance?