Bitterness on Gay Speak

[MikeW]

Well Mike....it would take too long to post all the links I've seen this on....and I never said infidelity was a gay issue....it's how the people on this site respond to infidelity.

You don't have to post "ALL" the links … how about 1 or 2 or 3 or 6? However many it would take to reinforce the point you're making? Too much trouble for you? Well, gee, then why should we put any effort at all into trying to understand what you're saying?

I agree with [MENTION=21495]Rareboy[/MENTION] , what I'm finding offensive about your OP is its morally "superior" tone… I really have no patience for people with such attitudes.

You wanna know why? Because I grew up with people like that. They filled the world of my youth, both in my immediate family, extended family and the community I grew up in.

In that world, everybody else's business is everybody else's business, know what I mean? In that world there's not one busybody who doesn't have an opinion based on the gossip they've heard from their neighbor about some other neighbor. And within that family/community matrix, everyone is trying to control everyone else (having no control over themselves).

The thing is, almost every god damned one of them is a self-ritious hypocrite who would much prefer to spend more time analyzing, judging and gossiping about everyone else's business than focusing on and taking care of their own.

For sure, you're entitled to your opinion, absolutely. You're entitled to live whatever kind of life, have whatever kind of relationship fits who you are. But the same is true for everyone else, Barry, and if you don't like that, well, that's just tough tities for you, eh?

What it boils down to is this: Should I structure my life, my sense of self and my sense of self worth, around what OTHER PEOPLE think, feel and believe -- or should I structure it around what I MYSELF, from within myself, feel to be right for me? I'm sure you can see how I came to the conclusion I have, given that, had I not embraced this conclusion, I'd still be hiding under a rock. … No, scratch that, I'd be long ago dead and buried, having either suicided outright, or through the long self-torture of alcohol and drug abuse, leading to the same result.

[BarryAndBryan]

Mike, I am sure you are very loved on this site...you are both funny and insightful....yet you can be one of the more bitter people that post. I understand you have had horrible things happen to you in life, yet so have I, and just because I said I have a good relationship does not mean I am being superior at all. If that is what you think then you are entitled to your opinion. I'm not trying to say anyone on here has a right or wrong relationship. I just do not believe cheating on someone is ever the answer. What makes me sad is that so many people tend to cheat and it is a fact that being cheated on tends to make people bitter...I was bitter for a very long time, but I believe in spreading hope...not bitterness. It was never intended to make someone feel that their relationship was right or wrong...and I will say again, if anyone would bother to actually read what I'm saying....is that it is not for me. And as for everyone implying what my "tone" is....well, you can't really hear my tone in written word. If you could I think everyone would calm down a bit. The way people live their lives and handle their relationships is not for me to decide and it's not what I was implying either. The bitterness I believe alot of people hold onto I feel color the way they answer questions or give advice on this site. People on here are very close, and yes, I understand they take up for each other, and being the new guy looking in, I see how I am an outsider and a lot of you feel like I do not have the right to say what I am saying. But your defensiveness I believe is out of place in this thread. Yes, I do believe that a lot of gay people need to get their shit together...so do a lot of straight people. This post was not originally attacking people's relationships, but their attitude about them because so many people have been hurt, and honestly Mike,.I don't really care what you "do" with this thread. This is suppose to be a place to share opinions and thoughts.....that is exactly what I have done. For those of you who take it wrong or get pissed off...yet again, I say so be it. I have explained what I was trying to say and if that is not understood, then I really don't know a better way to explain myself, and honestly I don't feel like I have to. People get up in arms about their lives, but I am a big believer in living your life the way you want too, and I am proud of how I live my own life...yet, it seems to me that people get pissed off when someone IS actually happy. To the point that East even seemed to imply that just because I have a strong stance against cheating that I myself must be a cheater. Kind of ridiculous if you ask me.----Barry

[Borg69]

I must not be reading the same threads as the OP. I've never seen the masses of bad advice he claims is here at all.

[East]

Mike, I am sure you are very loved on this site...you are both funny and insightful....yet you can be one of the more bitter people that post. I understand you have had horrible things happen to you in life, yet so have I, and just because I said I have a good relationship does not mean I am being superior at all. If that is what you think then you are entitled to your opinion. I'm not trying to say anyone on here has a right or wrong relationship. I just do not believe cheating on someone is ever the answer. What makes me sad is that so many people tend to cheat and it is a fact that being cheated on tends to make people bitter...I was bitter for a very long time, but I believe in spreading hope...not bitterness. It was never intended to make someone feel that their relationship was right or wrong...and I will say again, if anyone would bother to actually read what I'm saying....is that it is not for me. And as for everyone implying what my "tone" is....well, you can't really hear my tone in written word. If you could I think everyone would calm down a bit. The way people live their lives and handle their relationships is not for me to decide and it's not what I was implying either. The bitterness I believe alot of people hold onto I feel color the way they answer questions or give advice on this site. People on here are very close, and yes, I understand they take up for each other, and being the new guy looking in, I see how I am an outsider and a lot of you feel like I do not have the right to say what I am saying. But your defensiveness I believe is out of place in this thread. Yes, I do believe that a lot of gay people need to get their shit together...so do a lot of straight people. This post was not originally attacking people's relationships, but their attitude about them because so many people have been hurt, and honestly Mike,.I don't really care what you "do" with this thread. This is suppose to be a place to share opinions and thoughts.....that is exactly what I have done. For those of you who take it wrong or get pissed off...yet again, I say so be it. I have explained what I was trying to say and if that is not understood, then I really don't know a better way to explain myself, and honestly I don't feel like I have to. People get up in arms about their lives, but I am a big believer in living your life the way you want too, and I am proud of how I live my own life...yet, it seems to me that people get pissed off when someone IS actually happy. To the point that East even seemed to imply that just because I have a strong stance against cheating that I myself must be a cheater. Kind of ridiculous if you ask me.----Barry

I wasn't implying anything. I made my point clearly and my point was that a lot of people DO behave exactly as I illustrated. To pretend otherwise is foolish.

I have no idea one way or the other if you are one of them.

...and I do not see Mike as being bitter at all. I do see him as being honest and wise...qualities I love...it is refreshing....

BTW...I am not pissed off...

[BarryAndBryan]

That's fine East.....all I was trying to do was share an opinion I had and be HONEST...but maybe you guys are too close to allow someone else in. I do not regret my posts in any way. It's the way I feel and that is that. Maybe this place isn't for me....it used to be...I used to love to come on here many years ago. A lot of the people that used to be here helped me through a very dark time, but if it has gotten to the point that I cannot post my opinion without being attacked then maybe I should just take my leave. Love to all!----Barry

[East]

That's fine East.....all I was trying to do was share an opinion I had and be HONEST...but maybe you guys are too close to allow someone else in. I do not regret my posts in any way. It's the way I feel and that is that. Maybe this place isn't for me....it used to be...I used to love to come on here many years ago. A lot of the people that used to be here helped me through a very dark time, but if it has gotten to the point that I cannot post my opinion without being attacked then maybe I should just take my leave. Love to all!----Barry

Well...you started your initial post saying that you knew your post would piss a lot of people off...so I don't understand why you are upset by the responses....

Mike was right about giving examples so we could understand the context of what you are talking about. Things taken out of context don't mean much...and having no examples sounds like you are attacking other people...and by your opening statement...I think you knew that....

You are certainly welcome...but your post had a judgmental tone to it and again...what kind of response did you expect?

[Bhp91126]

Well BaB, there seems to be a pretty big disconnect between what you intended to express and the way all the others on here received it. You came over as a superior know-it-all presenting the unwashed masses with the solution for everything that makes gay men unhappy.

Good luck with that attitude.

For you the world is black and white and nothing in between, there's the good gays who think like you and there's the good relationships, like yours and everyone else's is just a travesty.

You made up your mind about things, because it fits your attitude, regardless of any present evidence and nothing is going to change that,

absolutely nothing

ever.

[Borg69]

That's fine East.....all I was trying to do was share an opinion I had and be HONEST...but maybe you guys are too close to allow someone else in. I do not regret my posts in any way. It's the way I feel and that is that. Maybe this place isn't for me....it used to be...I used to love to come on here many years ago. A lot of the people that used to be here helped me through a very dark time, but if it has gotten to the point that I cannot post my opinion without being attacked then maybe I should just take my leave. Love to all!----Barry

You basically attacked people for posting their opinions in your OP. Now you're being a bit of a drama queen because people have a different opinion than you. Do you know the differences between conversation and confrontation?

[Albie]

I don't know. I feel as if you are going to ask for advice to a bunch of strangers over the internet that do not really know you, then you should expect not all the advice to really apply to you.

[MikeW]

Mike, I am sure you are very loved on this site…

Some people appreciate what I have to say, yes.

you are both funny and insightful…

I do give both a shot now and then

yet you can be one of the more bitter people that post.

I state my thoughts quite pointedly at times, but "bitter"?? Please give AT LEAST ONE EXAMPLE of my "bitterness" so I/we can better understand what you are referring to.

I understand you have had horrible things happen to you in life, yet so have I, and just because I said I have a good relationship does not mean I am being superior at all.

No, indeed, just because you have a good relationship doesn't mean you are being superior. But that's not what we're referring to here. On the contrary, in your OP you said that you'd been reading a lot of threads on here… but you didn't reference or link to a single one of them (and still have not)… and that you found these reads both "sad and amazing." Specifically you go on to say, "the advice given on this site is sometimes appalling….people either telling other people it's okay to just go fuck someone or to just forgive someone for sleeping around." I would REALLY like to see who said this and in what context it was said. But, so far, you've not provided a link or a quote to back up this assertion by you that this IS advice given on this forum.

If that is what you think then you are entitled to your opinion.

I don't regard "bitterness" as a thought or opinion but rather an attitude. True, thought and opinions may express that attitude but, then again, thoughts and opinions may be mistaken for that attitude or wrongly attributed to that attitude.

I'm not trying to say anyone on here has a right or wrong relationship. I just do not believe cheating on someone is ever the answer.

Please provide one link or one quote where ANYONE on this forum has said out-right or even suggested that "cheating on someone is the answer." (Total WTF moment in my brain.)

What makes me sad is that so many people tend to cheat and it is a fact that being cheated on tends to make people bitter…

Perhaps. Perhaps we need to define what we mean by "bitter." What do you mean by "bitter"? I'll say this, although, indeed, I've endured a lot of hardships in my life, I've NEVER "cheated" nor have I ever been "cheated" on. However, although I have been in a long-term monogamous relationship, I've also been in two long-term open relationships and, in fact, one (rather short term) bisexual ménage à trois in my early 20s. NONE of them involved "cheating".

I was bitter for a very long time, but I believe in spreading hope...not bitterness.

So, you believe people here, including me apparently, "believe in" spreading "bitterness"??

It was never intended to make someone feel that their relationship was right or wrong…

Oh really? Then just how are people in open relationships supposed to interpret this OP statement of yours?

My husband and I, in my opinion seem to have more of an old fashioned relationship than I had previously believed. We do not invite other people into our relationship, we do not fool around or chat with people on gay dating sites looking for a third, or an orgy, or what have you, and as far as cheating goes, yes we love each other, but if Bryan ever cheated on me our relationship, our marriage would be over and vice versa, because once someone cheats on you all trust is gone and your relationship is over, and if you are inviting other people into your relationship then you shouldn't be together in the first place. You should just remain single and go fuck whoever you want.

And if that weren't judgmental enough, you go on to imply that having an open relationship, or defining one's relationship however one wants, sends a bad political message!

it bothers me because so many people in the world accuse gay people of not having "real" relationships or "real" marriages, and reading so many post on this forum condoning this kind of behavior makes me realize why they say that. If we are ever going to progress and be taken seriously, we, meaning all of the gay community, are going to have to get our shit together and honestly, grow up a little, learn to commit, and realize that even though we are gay, true love still exist

Yeah, for sure you're expressing your opinion, a judgmental opinion couched in self-righteous rhetoric. Once again, please provide links and examples of "so many post [sic] in this forum condoning this kind of behavior."

and I will say again, if anyone would bother to actually read what I'm saying….

I think we are. Are YOU actually READING what you're WRITING?

is that it is not for me. And as for everyone implying what my "tone" is....well, you can't really hear my tone in written word.

LOL… well, then by that standard, you can't tell whether I'm bitter or not, can you? What tone am I taking right now with you? Apparently you have no clue because you can't "hear" my voice, right?

If you could I think everyone would calm down a bit.

You wish.

The way people live their lives and handle their relationships is not for me to decide and it's not what I was implying either.

Oh really? Please square this last statement with the "if you are inviting other people into your relationship then you shouldn't be together in the first place," statement above.

The bitterness I believe alot of people hold onto I feel color the way they answer questions or give advice on this site.

Again, if you can't cite examples of what you're referring to, why should we take your word for it? This is how you are PERCEIVING something, are your perceptions accurate? Would you perhaps like to check that out with the other members of this forum, especially those you're labeling as "bitter"?

People on here are very close, and yes, I understand they take up for each other, and being the new guy looking in, I see how I am an outsider and a lot of you feel like I do not have the right to say what I am saying.

Oh, no, you have every right to say whatever the hell you want. And we have ever right to hold you responsible for WHAT you say. You're saying that many members of this site are "bitter" and have indicated that, "cheating on someone is ever the answer." I'm calling Bull Shit on this accusation and asking you to back it up with specific quotes and links, which, so far, you've refused to do.

But your defensiveness I believe is out of place in this thread.

Oh, right. It's OK for you to attack this forum and its members with false assertions but it isn't alright for us to defend this forum, ourselves and one another?

Yes, I do believe that a lot of gay people need to get their shit together...so do a lot of straight people. This post was not originally attacking people's relationships, but their attitude about them

But what business is it of YOURS how other people define THEIR relationships? Seriously, dude, how would you feel if I said YOU and Bryan *should* have an open relationship? Or… is that the problem… you perceive other people's openness about relationships as a direct threat to your own? If that is the case, I suggest the problem is not with "bitter" people here on this forum -- its the fact that YOU feel threatened by opinions and lives lived differently from your own.

because so many people have been hurt, and honestly Mike,.I don't really care what you "do" with this thread. This is suppose to be a place to share opinions and thoughts.....that is exactly what I have done.

And that's fine… but don't you think people should be willing and able to BACK UP THEIR OPINIONS AND THOUGHTS with evidence, or at least persuasive argumentation, that clarifies what those opinions are and how they were derived? So far, Barry, you've done none of that… SO I guess we're just supposed to either agree with you or disagree with you without fully understanding what the hell you were/are on about in the first place, hugh?

For those of you who take it wrong or get pissed off...yet again, I say so be it. I have explained what I was trying to say and if that is not understood, then I really don't know a better way to explain myself, and honestly I don't feel like I have to.

No, for sure, no one HAS to back up anything they say, do or think. For sure we can all just spout off whatever ignorant shit enters our heads. But that does NOT mean other people aren't going to call BS on it, right?

People get up in arms about their lives, but I am a big believer in living your life the way you want too, and I am proud of how I live my own life...yet, it seems to me that people get pissed off when someone IS actually happy.

LOL… wait, you think we're upset because you're happy?

OMFG, dude, I'm happy if you're happy. But if you're so damn happy, why do you need to go telling other people that they shouldn't even HAVE a relationship if it is going to be an open one? What the fuck is it to you and your happiness how other people find their own?

To the point that East even seemed to imply that just because I have a strong stance against cheating that I myself must be a cheater. Kind of ridiculous if you ask me.----Barry

You need some reading comprehension lessons, apparently. East never said any such thing about YOU. He did say that this is statistically THE NORM -- and he is right about that. There ARE exceptions to the norm and we all know that -- each of us being exceptional in his and her own way!