Being Gay and Christian?? +Update on first post

[ca1050]

Hey everyone!
So, this is my second post. My first one is here if you wouldn't mind reading and giving me your advice! https://gayspeak.com/showthread.php?t=36408
(UPDATE ON THIS POST AT THE BOTTOM!)

Anyways,
As stated in the my first post, I am new to the bi life. I am still closeted and figuring everything out. I have had the feeling I was bi for several years. I am also a pretty devoted Christian. It bothers me that I am basically just always sinning. I love the Lord and all that He has done for me, but I cannot deny now that I am bi (I recently decided to tell myself this thanks to the guy who I speak of in my first post.)

This guy I have been talking to is the first guy I have ever really liked a guy in any sense. I do not know what to think since I am always conflicted by this. Is anyone else here dealt with this and NOT lost his faith or decided to be agnostic?

I have been reading a lot in scripture about how being homosexual is wrong, bad, etc. I just can't help it anymore.. No one else knows other than this guy I am talking to that I am bi and that I am conflicted with my faith. He used to also be a Christian but lost his faith due to stupid pastors and churches and other personal things.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated! I am new to this site and it is also my only source to go to for advice on this sort of thing given my situation. So, THANK YOU!!


UPDATE ON FIRST POST:
I talked to him and brought about the fact that you don't just make-out with friends lol. He said that when we hang out, it just kind of happens. He also said he enjoys my company for sure. However, he also said he considers me a friend. BUT!! I told him I enjoy our hanging out and he replied that he enjoys it too and let's just see where things go. (Again he has said twice before he is not looking for anything serious, and I hope I may be changing his mind somewhat.)
For the past two weeks we haven't been hanging out as much and his texts are getting to where it can be anywhere from one minute to a couple of hours before he replies.
I usually text first, but he does every now and then, not as much recently.

[MikeW]

...So, this is my second post. ... As stated in the my first post, I am new to the bi life. I am still closeted and figuring everything out. ... I am also a pretty devoted Christian. It bothers me that I am basically just always sinning. I love the Lord and all that He has done for me, but I cannot deny now that I am bi...Is anyone else here dealt with this and NOT lost his faith or decided to be agnostic?...

I'm sorry no one replied to this post ca1050. There certainly are gay christians, I believe there are even a few on this forum.

Faith is a very personal thing. I was brought up Southern Baptist. I do not regard my current position regarding faith as "having lost it"... My faith evolved into something completely different from Christianity as it is practiced by most people who call themselves "Christian." For me this happened in part because, even as a boy, and long before I had a lot of intellectual understanding, I could see that most people who called themselves "Christian," didn't really know what they were talking about and most certainly didn't embody Christ. Most of them were just bigoted hypocrites who gave lip-service to their faith to maintain status (and power, which they often abused) within their community.

For sure, having homoerotic sexual feelings had something to do with how I looked at Christianity -- but it was way more than that. As a boy and young adolescent I often had "mystical" experiences; moments when I was in the presence of what you would call "the Lord." What I began to realize from these experiences is that they were not only numinous (sacred) but equally ineffable (beyond words or description). Thus, at a fairly early age I began to realize that words form concepts in the mind that are, in a sense, very concrete. When, in fact, especially when dealing with qualities of the spiritual and the sacred, these concretized concepts within the mind always miss the mark. (The original Hebrew meaning of "sin" is "to miss the mark".) In a very real way, these overly concrete concepts are IDOLS within the mind that are worshiped, thus MISSING the living breathing spirit that is everywhere in and around us.

I'm not going to try and persuade you of my understandings of religion in general and Christianity in specific. Each man has to come to his own understanding, his own relationship with what we call "God." Some choose to deny the existence of any such thing. My opinion is they're making the same error (sin) as those who claim to "know" God through words and "thoughts in the head" or "infallible scripture". (However "infallible" scripture might be, the human mind that interprets it is most certainly fallible.)

To me it is obvious that any Deity that can manifest a cosmos that is as grand as the one we inhabit -- a cosmos which in expanse alone (not to mention the temporal dimension) reduces our existence to less than nothing -- is not going to be overly concerned about what we do with our penises. True enough, sexual energy (heterosexual, homosexual, w/e) CAN be mis-used; that is, used to harm others through physical and psychological violence, coercion, manipulation, hell even madison avenue temptations. << THAT is a perversion of sexual energy.

On the other hand, the sharing of sexual arousal with others, even casually, is not harmful so long as there is freedom to choose to engage or not on both (or all) parties part. If it feels good, do it and more joy to us all.

That said, sexual arousal ALSO has another more potentially "sacred" component, that of uniting with "the other" (one's lover) in a state of erotic union. This, to my mind, brings us closer to the REALITY of what some people call "God," LOVE itself for itself.

If you step back and look at the fecundity of the universe, even our very, very tiny corner of it, it should be obvious that "God" LOVES to express joy and pleasure. It's done in every sunrise and sunset. Every flower that blooms, every time someone falls in lust, or better yet, in love. What we as human beings bring into the world is our EXPERIENCE of these pleasures. Our "sin" is not understanding how they are rooted in the sacredness of all life, all being. Adam and Eve "fell" because they failed to realize they already WERE apart of "God".

ETA.... I just have to throw this picture in here. We live in a cosmos FILLED with beauty and wonder... bipolar planetary nebula M2-9 is just one of countless billions of examples. And we get all hung up on whether it's "ok" to feel our sexual passion with another human being (regardless of gender). Seriously? What egotistical hubris for us to believe it is somehow "sinful" to experience sexual passion and erotic ecstasy with another man. The universe IS an orgasm!

[yousir]

Mike = Legend = Life = Solved.

[jaxc]

I'm sorry no one replied to this post ca1050. There certainly are gay christians, I believe there are even a few on this forum.

Faith is a very personal thing. I was brought up Southern Baptist. I do not regard my current position regarding faith as "having lost it"... My faith evolved into something completely different from Christianity as it is practiced by most people who call themselves "Christian." For me this happened in part because, even as a boy, and long before I had a lot of intellectual understanding, I could see that most people who called themselves "Christian," didn't really know what they were talking about and most certainly didn't embody Christ. Most of them were just bigoted hypocrites who gave lip-service to their faith to maintain status (and power, which they often abused) within their community.

For sure, having homoerotic sexual feelings had something to do with how I looked at Christianity -- but it was way more than that. As a boy and young adolescent I often had "mystical" experiences; moments when I was in the presence of what you would call "the Lord." What I began to realize from these experiences is that they were not only numinous (sacred) but equally ineffable (beyond words or description). Thus, at a fairly early age I began to realize that words form concepts in the mind that are, in a sense, very concrete. When, in fact, especially when dealing with qualities of the spiritual and the sacred, these concretized concepts within the mind always miss the mark. (The original Hebrew meaning of "sin" is "to miss the mark".) In a very real way, these overly concrete concepts are IDOLS within the mind that are worshiped, thus MISSING the living breathing spirit that is everywhere in and around us.

I'm not going to try and persuade you of my understandings of religion in general and Christianity in specific. Each man has to come to his own understanding, his own relationship with what we call "God." Some choose to deny the existence of any such thing. My opinion is they're making the same error (sin) as those who claim to "know" God through words and "thoughts in the head" or "infallible scripture". (However "infallible" scripture might be, the human mind that interprets it is most certainly fallible.)

To me it is obvious that any Deity that can manifest a cosmos that is as grand as the one we inhabit -- a cosmos which in expanse alone (not to mention the temporal dimension) reduces our existence to less than nothing -- is not going to be overly concerned about what we do with our penises. True enough, sexual energy (heterosexual, homosexual, w/e) CAN be mis-used; that is, used to harm others through physical and psychological violence, coercion, manipulation, hell even madison avenue temptations. << THAT is a perversion of sexual energy.

On the other hand, the sharing of sexual arousal with others, even casually, is not harmful so long as there is freedom to choose to engage or not on both (or all) parties part. If it feels good, do it and more joy to us all.

That said, sexual arousal ALSO has another more potentially "sacred" component, that of uniting with "the other" (one's lover) in a state of erotic union. This, to my mind, brings us closer to the REALITY of what some people call "God," LOVE itself for itself.

If you step back and look at the fecundity of the universe, even our very, very tiny corner of it, it should be obvious that "God" LOVES to express joy and pleasure. It's done in every sunrise and sunset. Every flower that blooms, every time someone falls in lust, or better yet, in love. What we as human beings bring into the world is our EXPERIENCE of these pleasures. Our "sin" is not understanding how they are rooted in the sacredness of all life, all being. Adam and Eve "fell" because they failed to realize they already WERE apart of "God".

ETA.... I just have to throw this picture in here. We live in a cosmos FILLED with beauty and wonder... bipolar planetary nebula M2-9 is just one of countless billions of examples. And we get all hung up on whether it's "ok" to feel our sexual passion with another human being (regardless of gender). Seriously? What egotistical hubris for us to believe it is somehow "sinful" to experience sexual passion and erotic ecstasy with another man. The universe IS an orgasm!

I know it's blatantly obvious but because I'm essentially a man child i feel the need to point it out, so...that looks like to penisis touching tips! "sigh" glad i got that out of my system:biggrin:

[jaxc]

Hey everyone!
So, this is my second post. My first one is here if you wouldn't mind reading and giving me your advice! https://gayspeak.com/showthread.php?t=36408
(UPDATE ON THIS POST AT THE BOTTOM!)

Anyways,
As stated in the my first post, I am new to the bi life. I am still closeted and figuring everything out. I have had the feeling I was bi for several years. I am also a pretty devoted Christian. It bothers me that I am basically just always sinning. I love the Lord and all that He has done for me, but I cannot deny now that I am bi (I recently decided to tell myself this thanks to the guy who I speak of in my first post.)

This guy I have been talking to is the first guy I have ever really liked a guy in any sense. I do not know what to think since I am always conflicted by this. Is anyone else here dealt with this and NOT lost his faith or decided to be agnostic?

I have been reading a lot in scripture about how being homosexual is wrong, bad, etc. I just can't help it anymore.. No one else knows other than this guy I am talking to that I am bi and that I am conflicted with my faith. He used to also be a Christian but lost his faith due to stupid pastors and churches and other personal things.

Any and all advice is greatly appreciated! I am new to this site and it is also my only source to go to for advice on this sort of thing given my situation. So, THANK YOU!!


UPDATE ON FIRST POST:
I talked to him and brought about the fact that you don't just make-out with friends lol. He said that when we hang out, it just kind of happens. He also said he enjoys my company for sure. However, he also said he considers me a friend. BUT!! I told him I enjoy our hanging out and he replied that he enjoys it too and let's just see where things go. (Again he has said twice before he is not looking for anything serious, and I hope I may be changing his mind somewhat.)
For the past two weeks we haven't been hanging out as much and his texts are getting to where it can be anywhere from one minute to a couple of hours before he replies.
I usually text first, but he does every now and then, not as much recently.

I'm pretty a posted in the original thread, but if not I'll just reiterate the response that was in my head and shorten it a bit.
Are there gay christians? yes, quite a few actually(probably around 60-75% i think consider religion or spirituality important to there life). Does being a gay christian mean that you might have to cherry pick which laws you do and don't follow? yes, but everyone else pretty much does anyways, and that's a good thing, cause if they didn't, well some of the old testament and it would probably be a little like that, but worse cause we have guns, bombs & chemical weapons. So don't fret about "living in sin" and act like a generally good human being, cause if there is a just god out there, he shouldn't be concern with who you like to boink now & again. And about your new love interest, I would just be patient, I mean he went from just fooling around to now possibly going into something more serious, he may need some time to process and think about what he want's, but in the mean time, i would still keep in touch with him just to see how he's doing and what he want's to do with the relationship( if you can call that at this point)