Ayaan Hirisi Ali abd Sharia Law

[Virge]

[MENTION=13210]Beaux[/MENTION] .

I'm not going to argue about it with you. You appear DEADSET about trying to be right about this rather than look at facts and use reason.

By the way, like you, I'm no fan of Christianity as it is practiced by the majority of people anymore than I am of any religion.

Here's the first difference between Islam and Christianity. Jesus and Mohammed.

Christianity revolves around (true or not) the life of a man who taught people to turn the other cheek, not cast the first stone unless you're sinless, forgiveness etc. Only once did he resort to violence when he evicted money changers from the temple. He never commanded his followers to kill those who had slandered him or to spread his message. He told a prostitute to go and sin no more rather than have her stoned as commanded in Leviticus. He was a man of peace and nonviolence.

Islam is about a man (true or not) who rose to prominence by violence. He taught that peace could not exist until all infidels were conquered or killed. He commanded his followers in battles in which they slaughtered all the men, raped women and children (both girls and boys. Under Islam if you have anal sex with a infidel boy it's not the same as having sex with a Muslim boy. If you lived in Saudi Arabia you should have known that. It was taught to all foreign parents so they would keep their young sons from wandering off) Mohammed ordered the execution of a woman who wrote a poem he didn't like. According to his biographies (sira) there was another woman he raped just minutes after he made her witness the beheading of her father, brother and husband.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/History.htm
http://bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm
READ THIS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Asma%27_bint_Marwan




I'm giving you facts but from the things you've already said I really don't believe they will change your mind because your "cup is full" of the bullshit you want to believe in spite of facts. That makes you no different from people in Islam or Christianity who ignore facts and reason in order to keep believing their bullshit.

All you've done so far is give everyone a good example of the type of person I was talking about above.

Extra credit assignment.
In your spare time, try to find quotes in the bible of Jesus saying anything like these words from Mohammed.
Truly, god loves those who fight
Fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.
Chop off their hands and chop off their fingertips
When you meet the unbelievers, chop off their heads
Fight and slay those who don't convert wherever you find them
Believers, take neither Jew nor Christians for your friends
Those who follow Muhammad are ruthless to unbelievers
Those who reject Islam are "the vilest of creatures" and thus deserve no mercy
Fight them until Islam reigns supreme throughout the world

[Beaux]

[MENTION=13210]Beaux[/MENTION] .

I'm not going to argue about it with you. You appear DEADSET about trying to be right about this rather than look at facts and use reason.

By the way, like you, I'm no fan of Christianity as it is practiced by the majority of people anymore than I am of any religion.

Here's the first difference between Islam and Christianity. Jesus and Mohammed.

Christianity revolves around (true or not) the life of a man who taught people to turn the other cheek, not cast the first stone unless you're sinless, forgiveness etc. Only once did he resort to violence when he evicted money changers from the temple. He never commanded his followers to kill those who had slandered him or to spread his message. He told a prostitute to go and sin no more rather than have her stoned as commanded in Leviticus. He was a man of peace and nonviolence.

Islam is about a man (true or not) who rose to prominence by violence. He taught that peace could not exist until all infidels were conquered or killed. He commanded his followers in battles in which they slaughtered all the men, raped women and children (both girls and boys. Under Islam if you have anal sex with a infidel boy it's not the same as having sex with a Muslim boy. If you lived in Saudi Arabia you should have known that. It was taught to all foreign parents so they would keep their young sons from wandering off) Mohammed ordered the execution of a woman who wrote a poem he didn't like. According to his biographies (sira) there was another woman he raped just minutes after he made her witness the beheading of her father, brother and husband.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages/History.htm
http://bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm
READ THIS http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Asma%27_bint_Marwan




I'm giving you facts but from the things you've already said I really don't believe they will change your mind because your "cup is full" of the bullshit you want to believe in spite of facts. That makes you no different from people in Islam or Christianity who ignore facts and reason in order to keep believing their bullshit.

All you've done so far is give everyone a good example of the type of person I was talking about above.

Extra credit assignment.
In your spare time, try to find quotes in the bible of Jesus saying anything like these words from Mohammed.
Truly, god loves those who fight
Fight and slay the pagans wherever you find them, and seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem.
Chop off their hands and chop off their fingertips
When you meet the unbelievers, chop off their heads
Fight and slay those who don't convert wherever you find them
Believers, take neither Jew nor Christians for your friends
Those who follow Muhammad are ruthless to unbelievers
Those who reject Islam are "the vilest of creatures" and thus deserve no mercy
Fight them until Islam reigns supreme throughout the world

I seem "Dead-Set"??? I'm not the one repeatedly posting on this, you are. Your the one being eaten from the inside out with hatred, not me.

~Beaux

[Virge]

[MENTION=13210]Beaux[/MENTION]
Go back and find words I wrote that showed you that I'm being eaten from the inside out with hatred.

If you can't then we'll all see you're just full of shit.

All I did was present you with facts that conflict with your world view. It's not my problem if the facts upset you. You have every right to ignore them or even invent your own to help you maintain your world view.

[Virge]

@[COLOR="blue"]East
I can't quote on this thread because the first quote I did in here 2 days ago keeps popping up. So here's what you said. A real good point to talk about.
[/COLOR]
You said:
Also.. [MENTION=21084]Virge[/MENTION] has a point about disagreeing with conservatives...but it isn't that simple. I can agree with conservatives ...and sometimes I do...but NEVER when I sense any kind of racist or xenophobic bullshit ...and I know that the ones who are think they hide it...but they don't. It isn't long before they do their whole "those brown people" rants...the them and us rants...on soooooooooooooooooooooooo many other topics....that I draw a natural and correct conclusion and so I grit my teeth and go back to my camp and try to find a way to defend an organized religion I dislike intensely...as I intensely dislike all organized religion.

[COLOR="Blue"]The bolded words made me think about something. Let's see what you think about it.

Just because someone might be a racist or xenophobe doesn't mean they're automatically wrong about whatever they are talking about.

Some people get the right answer but do it the wrong way or even by accident, just like the odds in gambling. A broke clock tells the right time twice a day.

THAT could have a lot to do with liberals automatic disagreement with conservatives on Islam. They sense (real or imagined) racism or xenophobia and are instinctively repulsed by it. But then it do we call those liberals racistophobias and xenophobophobics?

Just something to think about. [/COLOR]

[Demosthenes]

Virge, maybe you should try to think about your tone and the possibility of it making you appear as "dead-set" to others.

[East]

@[COLOR="blue"]East
I can't quote on this thread because the first quote I did in here 2 days ago keeps popping up. So here's what you said. A real good point to talk about.
[/COLOR]
You said:
Also.. [MENTION=21084]Virge[/MENTION] has a point about disagreeing with conservatives...but it isn't that simple. I can agree with conservatives ...and sometimes I do...but NEVER when I sense any kind of racist or xenophobic bullshit ...and I know that the ones who are think they hide it...but they don't. It isn't long before they do their whole "those brown people" rants...the them and us rants...on soooooooooooooooooooooooo many other topics....that I draw a natural and correct conclusion and so I grit my teeth and go back to my camp and try to find a way to defend an organized religion I dislike intensely...as I intensely dislike all organized religion.

[COLOR="Blue"]The bolded words made me think about something. Let's see what you think about it.

Just because someone might be a racist or xenophobe doesn't mean they're automatically wrong about whatever they are talking about.

Some people get the right answer but do it the wrong way or even by accident, just like the odds in gambling. A broke clock tells the right time twice a day.

THAT could have a lot to do with liberals automatic disagreement with conservatives on Islam. They sense (real or imagined) racism or xenophobia and are instinctively repulsed by it. But then it do we call those liberals racistophobias and xenophobophobics?

Just something to think about. [/COLOR]

The problem is the content of any conversation or dialogue if it is framed in racist or xenophobic terms. It is hard for most any liberal to listen to the content to follow because of the place it is coming from.

...and that is also why it is hard for me to come to terms with my own thoughts on this. On most any other board...there is a resident paid shill who uses talking points that are both racist and xenophobic which automatically turns me running back to defend Islam when the truth is...I have just as much of a problem with Islam as I do with Christianity....

The both want to dictate to EVERYONE how to live our lives...always gonna be a problem for me. Differences or similarities don't matter much because the thing that they have in common repels me. I don't mind the people who consider either source a comfort and path for themselves...but the point of organized religion I believe is controlling the masses anyway..as is the point of so many (but not all) of their most ardent followers who try to force their will in the name of God or Allah or Sky Daddy on the rest of us...and for that reason I will always have a problem with organized religion....

...and THAT is why I question fellow liberals who usually agree on organized religion why they are defending THAT one....

...and I will figure it out. I have absorbed and listened to everyone and I will shift though the information and ideas and opinions and come to some conclusion ...hopefully....maybe learn something new in the process...

...and YES...it would be fair to call most liberals racistophobias and xenophobophobics :biggrin: I am fine with it....can't speak for anyone else

[Virge]

[MENTION=18508]East[/MENTION]
You said:
"The problem is the content of any conversation or dialogue if it is framed in racist or xenophobic terms. It is hard for most any liberal to listen to the content to follow because of the place it is coming from."
[COLOR="Blue"]I understand that. I'm the way. But it has a flip side that drives me as crazy as it does when you hear someone do that and you've witnessed it in here. I'm not going to name names. It happens IRL all time too. It goes like this.
LIBERAL: States an opinion
NON-LIBERAL: Replies with his opinion.
LIBERAL: Oh, so you are a Racist/ an Islamphobe/ Misogynist/ Want poor people to starve/ Support shooting people... yada yada yada...

This scenario played out this 2 weekends ago in a conversation with people about all the trouble I've had with my insurance and how I don't like Obamacare. One guy took it where it didn't need to go. He said "Just be honest and admit you're against Obamacare because you think he's a blue gum negro and a Muslim."

I know that game. I've been in that situation too many times. He expected me to sulk off and him look like the smart ass liberal knight in shining armor in front of the rest of the people for killing a racist dragon. Using facts and reason, I peeled him like an onion right down to the core and showed him what an ignorant rude and ideological bigot he was. The idiot didn't even know that the Affordable Care Act and Obamacare are the same thing and tried to argue with me and say they were two different things. He didn't even know that the IRS is taking income tax refunds from people in order to pay for what he kept calling 'free health care.' But he had the nerve to imply I am a racist.[/COLOR]

You said:
"They both want to dictate to EVERYONE how to live our lives...always gonna be a problem for me."
Yes! BOTH groups of loudmouthed zero information extremes on the political spectrum! I'm fed up with both of them. I can safely call them zero information because both extremes are making their decisions based on feelings and ideology without any critical thinking involved. Start paying attention to it and you'll see it.

You said:
"as is the point of so many (but not all) of their most ardent followers who try to force their will in the name of God or Allah or Sky Daddy on the rest of us...and for that reason I will always have a problem with organized religion.......and THAT is why I question fellow liberals who usually agree on organized religion why they are defending THAT one...."
[COLOR="Blue"]You and me both. I am totally opposed to organized religion and collective ideologies but respect the 1st amendment about it. Just don't put it in my face, don't put it in the government, schools, science. I'm still contending liberals defend Islam only because conservatives AND most moderates are against it. Hell, for that matter all the real Muslims who live here came here to get away from Islam and they are all great great people who are happy to be living somewhere they can enjoy be honest about Islam when people ask. They are more opposed to Islam than I am. One guy here says the US needs to go bomb them all. We've got a few wannabee Muslims here that the local Muslims laugh at. Teens, druggies and dropouts just looking for a group to fit in.

But with you saying what you did above about opposing organized religion on you (and others) you exposed a hypocrisy of today's liberal ideology. They oppose religions imposing their will over everyone but they support the government doing it for programs THEY support. [/COLOR]

[Virge]

[MENTION=22890]Demosthenes[/MENTION]
You said:
"Virge, maybe you should try to think about your tone and the possibility of it making you appear as "dead-set" to others."

On the internet tone pretty much does not exist except as readers themselves subjectively apply it to words. Here in GS we can insert tone to some degree by changing type sizes which I've got a reputation for doing usually being funny so the tone won't be missed.

And yes, I am dead-set about some things. Facts, reason and understanding are on the top of that list. I'll stand up and defend all three of them to the end against things based in the lack of them. I do have a problem with people who develop beliefs not based on facts and reason because if they're not based on facts and reason all that's left to base them on is feelings, lies and dogma. That shit is what gets people killed a thousand at the time.

See if you can the tone in these words.

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="6"]“Those who can make you believe absurdities,
can make you commit atrocities.” [/SIZE]
Voltaire[/COLOR]

They also spread ignorance. I'm deadset against that too. And the blue words below aren't there for decoration.

[Demosthenes]

[MENTION=22890]Demosthenes[/MENTION]
You said:
"Virge, maybe you should try to think about your tone and the possibility of it making you appear as "dead-set" to others."

On the internet tone pretty much does not exist except as readers themselves subjectively apply it to words. Here in GS we can insert tone to some degree by changing type sizes which I've got a reputation for doing usually being funny so the tone won't be missed.

And yes, I am dead-set about some things. Facts, reason and understanding are on the top of that list. I'll stand up and defend all three of them to the end against things based in the lack of them. I do have a problem with people who develop beliefs not based on facts and reason because if they're not based on facts and reason all that's left to base them on is feelings, lies and dogma. That shit is what gets people killed a thousand at the time.

See if you can the tone in these words.

[COLOR="Blue"][SIZE="6"]“Those who can make you believe absurdities,
can make you commit atrocities.” [/SIZE]
Voltaire[/COLOR]

They also spread ignorance. I'm deadset against that too. And the blue words below aren't there for decoration.

Sarcasm, rudeness, dogmatism etc are expressed through writing too. Consciously or not. Your posts in this thread contain all three, or so it seems to me. Apart from that, I agree with you, dogmatism is scary; I'm scared of those who think they have a monopoly on reason. Usually, they're the dogmatist par excellence, the kind who let the facts speak as if facts could tell us anything by themselves. Lastly, I'd say that your privileging of reason is most probably based on some feeling.

[East]

You said:
"The problem is the content of any conversation or dialogue if it is framed in racist or xenophobic terms. It is hard for most any liberal to listen to the content to follow because of the place it is coming from."
[COLOR="Blue"]I understand that. I'm the way. But it has a flip side that drives me as crazy as it does when you hear someone do that and you've witnessed it in here. I'm not going to name names. It happens IRL all time too. It goes like this.
LIBERAL: States an opinion
NON-LIBERAL: Replies with his opinion.
LIBERAL: Oh, so you are a Racist/ an Islamphobe/ Misogynist/ Want poor people to starve/ Support shooting people... yada yada yada...

This scenario played out this 2 weekends ago in a conversation with people about all the trouble I've had with my insurance and how I don't like Obamacare. One guy took it where it didn't need to go. He said "Just be honest and admit you're against Obamacare because you think he's a blue gum negro and a Muslim."

I know that game. I've been in that situation too many times. He expected me to sulk off and him look like the smart ass liberal knight in shining armor in front of the rest of the people for killing a racist dragon. Using facts and reason, I peeled him like an onion right down to the core and showed him what an ignorant rude and ideological bigot he was. The idiot didn't even know that the Affordable Care Act and Obamacare are the same thing and tried to argue with me and say they were two different things. He didn't even know that the IRS is taking income tax refunds from people in order to pay for what he kept calling 'free health care.' But he had the nerve to imply I am a racist.

Well Virge...I think EVERYONE is racist..everyone...and I mean everyone. To what degree is the real question...and is someone able to separate their racism and remain objective....

Hell, for that matter all the real Muslims who live here came here to get away from Islam and they are all great great people who are happy to be living somewhere they can enjoy be honest about Islam when people ask. They are more opposed to Islam than I am.[/B] One guy here says the US needs to go bomb them all. We've got a few wannabee Muslims here that the local Muslims laugh at. Teens, druggies and dropouts just looking for a group to fit in.

No...this is false.

These are American Muslims in Washington DC.....

Yeah....I know...SOME Muslims don't believe this...but ALOT OF THEM DO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But with you saying what you did above about opposing organized religion on you (and others) you exposed a hypocrisy of today's liberal ideology. They oppose religions imposing their will over everyone but they support the government doing it for programs THEY support.

I am not exposing anything. This country was founded on the separation of CHURCH and STATE.

If you want to explore hypocricy...look at the conservatives who scream about government regulation...yet they have no problem regulating morality...and what people do with their own bodies...and who can or cannot be married....they advocate even more government regulation when it is convenient for them. They also openly support the most extreme religious conservatives who would love to see Extreme Christian Ideological Law become the law of the land....

PS...I know you want proof...and it is easy to find proof....I am not in the mood...and am never in the mood when it comes to Republicans anymore because they make me feel ill having to read the bullshit they come up with.... It isn't as if Republicans aren't proud of their efforts and/or try to hide them. I normally try to avoid reading what they come up with next...but it is hard to avoid...hence...easy to find your own proof if you need it.