Gays and Religion

[meridannight]

but marriage has long ago moved away from being a "christian" thing and just about anyone can get a license to wed or what ever you call it, I'm a little to drunk to look it up now and I'm already struggling to type this much.

marriage didn't even start out as a christian thing. that's not where its origins are. the christian church abducted the ''ownership'' on it, or so it would like to think it did, in the intellectual dark age of the European civilization. but that about sums it up. marriage existed before there was church, and even after the church started performing ceremonies, there was a secular option alongside it (except in late 18th century England, which only recognized religious marriage, but that only lasted for a hundred and a handful of years, and people went to Scotland to get married non-religiously).


just a few excerpts from wikipedia to illustrate:

In medieval Europe, marriage was governed by canon law, which recognized as valid only those marriages where the parties stated they took one another as husband and wife, regardless of the presence or absence of witnesses. It was not necessary, however, to be married by any official or cleric.

The Protestant pastor and theologian of Geneva John Calvin decreed that in order for a couple to be considered married they must be registered by the state in addition to a church ceremony

In 1792, with the French Revolution, religious marriage ceremonies in France were made secondary to civil marriage. Religious ceremonies could still be performed, but only for couples who had already been married in a civil ceremony. Napoleon later spread this custom throughout most of Europe. In present-day France, only civil marriage has legal validity. A religious ceremony may be performed after the civil union, but it has no legal effect.

and, speaking of ancient Rome and some supposed origins for Roman marriage traditions:

Marriage had mythical precedents, starting with the abduction of the Sabine Women, which may reflect the archaic custom of bride abduction. Romulus and his band of male immigrants were rejected conubium, the legal right to intermarriage, from the Sabines. According to Livy, Romulus and his men abducted the Sabine maidens, but promised them an honorable marriage, in which they would enjoy the benefits of property, citizenship, and children. These three benefits seem to define the purpose of marriage in ancient Rome.

christian church didn't even exist back that far.

get the idea out of your heads that marriage is a religious act. the church was given the right to perform marriages, it was never granted and never held ownership or ''copyright'' on it. and it doesn't, and never will.

[ceez]

YES, EXACTLY [MENTION=21405]meridannight[/MENTION] ! I don't think Christians realise this and it doesn't say it was created by the church in the bible. Which really makes their battle against gay marraige irrelavent.

[LONDONER]

Brian 3924: PM me with your address and I will send you a DVD of three programmes entitles "Sex and the Church" presented by Diarmaid MacCulloch that explain in detail how marriage was hijacked by the Church.

http://www.mkweb.co.uk/SEX-CHURCH-Big-qu...story.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diarmaid_MacCulloch

[meridannight]

Which really makes their battle against gay marraige irrelavent.

utterly so. and it's ridiculous, to say the least, that an institution that has no right to claim any authority over two people making their union official (i.e. marriage), is now harboring under the impression that it has a semblance of validity in deciding who can or can't marry and what the conditions are. laughable.

the church needs a history lesson and a huge reality check. people are no longer living in the Dark Ages deprived of basic education, the likes of what the church used to deal with and manipulate. those times are over for good. as long as the church continues to appeal to such individuals, it will continue to be an institution of outdated groundless make-believe it still stubbornly tries to cling on to. the dinosaurs went extinct for a reason.

[LONDONER]

Don't forget that for hundreds of years the Church banned the publication of the Bible in any other language other than Latin. Why? Because the vast majority of people couldn't read it and its only interpreters were the clergy who very conveniently, gave the general public only what the chuch wanted it to know.

[jimcrackcorn]

Massachusetts has had legal same-sex-marriage since 2003 and no christian church has been forced to perform a gay marriage there. Why would you think it would start happening now?

[Lexington]

Welcome to GaySpeak, Justice Scalia. Perhaps you forgot this part of the discussion you took part in.

Scalia: They are laws, they are not constitutional requirements. If you let the states do it, you can make an exception. ... You can't do that once it is a constitutional prescription. ...

Justice Elena Kagan: Maybe I'm just not understanding Justice Scalia's question, but for example, there are many rabbis that will not conduct marriage between Jews and non-Jews, not withstanding that we have a constitutional prohibition against religious discrimination. ... Many, many, many rabbis won't do that.

Bonauto: That is precisely correct.

Scalia: You agree that ministers will not have conduct same-sex marriages?

Bonauto: That is correct, I believe that is firm within the First Amendment.

Then again, it HAS been a long week for you.

Lex

[Virge]

[MENTION=21778]Lexington[/MENTION] gets some slobber for that.... hahahhaahha

The entire idea of gays (pardon the language) FUCKING UP freedom of religion is so lame only a maggot filled cow turd type of brain could accept it as valid.

Go back and look at EVERY example of >>>>>> gay rights<<<<< oppressing >>>>>religious freedom<<<<< and you'll see in EVERY CASE it's a matter of "lack of religious freedom" being imposed on others.

For the Hobby Lobby crap........ If a RELIGIOUS employer will not provide insurance that covers birth control for his employees... THAT'S NOT RELIGIOUS FREEDOM. it's religious oppression. The employer is imposing their religious views on their employees.....

All of you lame ass low life presentation US oppressing your religious freedom ......... you are high on Bible crack if you can twist reality to believe WE are screwing up your FREEDOM to PRACTICE your YOUR RELIGION by NOT OBEYING YOUR RELIGION'S bronze age bullshit.

WHY ARE YOU MAKING A BIG DEAL OUT OF WHAT LESS THAN 5% of the population does????? OH..... because you have to have someone to vilify in order to make yourselves look pious. Please...

Find some real evils to to stand against... start with your own hypocrisy.

[Virge]

And there's not one person here in GS that hasn't read my words about my one on one relationship with God.... and I'm not talking about some deity that uses lame ass quotes trying to validate my own personal biases like the OP is did.

I am thankful for being able to move past the mumbo jumbo and finding God and feel like I'm on a first name basis with him. He and I have a good thing thing going on now I've learned. He's the pitcher. I'm the batter. he throws all sorts of crazy crap my way trying to see if he can make me swing... No way. I wait for the pitches in the strike zone and I smack them every time.... And I know that's exactly what he gets a kick out of. He's as fond of me as I am of him. I LOVE everything he does testing me and face it with a BRING IT ON attitude.... and usually about 5am walking with the dogs when the world's asleep I get a feeling he's mighty proud of me... I'm real good taking anything he throws my way... things he doesn't have time to finish... Like I said...... anything he throws in my strike zone is gong to be hit out the ballpark.


BUT Brian will be avoiding me because he knows I'm his worst enemy. I don't expect him to come back and have a rational conversation because he's incapable of doing it. Without quoting scripture he's a naked fool in the desert............ read the blue words below.

[artyboy]

I think religions should just be banned, causes to much bullshite in the world.