Is Anyone Else...

[Arthur.FWT]

As disturbed by this as I am? A little "Christianity" for a Sunday morning.



One of the most nauseating things I've seen on YouTube, and that's saying something. That poor girl.

I want a t-shirt that says "Ex-Straight", why not, it'd be as accurate.

Sorry to be a downer but that pissed me off no end, figured I'd spread it around.

[fredv3b]

To be honest I've seen many similar videos before and they no longer piss me off. The whole Ex-gay ministry thing seems to take advantage of some very vulnerable people and a prime example of the road to hell being paved with good intentions. I am also quite curious as to why it is such a peculiarly American phenomenon.

[lynx]

Yes... you're right. I'd say those events are really strange, I'm seriously discoraged with a little think: a lot of gay spent a lot of time and of a spiritual power to find their own way to the self-identification. And then, when they have just got left all this behind, those people got the reverse - to prove to other people and to themselves that they aren't who they are... Strange people (( Moreover, the most dispiriting thing is that many other young guys that are at the beginning of the way only and are distressed at most won't get any support when they need it so much but will see such an easy way out. ((
And one more think I've got writing the post: maybe is this just a way out from the game for people who have no sufficient courage or strength...

[sox-and-the-city]

Not wanting to be horribly dismissive (okay that's a TOTAL lie, but oh well...) but HOW many times can one girl fit the word 'like' into one sentence??

It was, like, so, like, amazing, like, how God was like, there, like and he was so, like, full of mercy...

Until she can formulate a coherent sentence i don't think anyone whose mind would have been changed is gonna listen, tbh. This kind of media is not aimed at anyone who is gonna be reasonable enough to challenge it.

[fredv3b]

And one more think I've got writing the post: maybe is this just a way out from the game for people who have no sufficient courage or strength...

I am not sure I agree with that. From what I here about ex-gay programs they are very demanding and require a great deal of strength.

Those that grow up both gay and strongly 'traditional Christian' must surely find themselves in a very difficult situation. Their deeply held religious beliefs are in absolute contradiction to their own feelings. There are only three possible solutions to this either their beliefs are wrong and must be changed, their feelings are wrong and must be changed or that although feelings, in themselves, are neither wrong nor right for them to act on their feelings would be wrong and they must live a life of celibacy.

Considering these possibilities in turn. First, actively trying to change your beliefs to ones that are more convenient to your current situation, is on the face of it, the worst kind of 'right or wrong is decided by whatever makes you personally happy' / do whatever you want code of ethics. So I can understand why to such persons it does not sound an attractive option. In any case nobody ever believes their current thoughts and beliefs to be wrong.

Considering the last option next. Celibacy obviously has significant draw backs, but I can see the attraction (sort of) of devoting your life to Christ. I suspect that many young Catholic gay men consider entering the priesthood, if you are going to to have to be celibate anyway why not join a group where you are expected to be celibate and have support and comradeship.

I cannot quote the exact scripture but St Paul said something to the effect of its best to be celibate, but for those who cannot manage that there is marriage. This is a teaching that seems to be quietly forgotten by many American Evangelicals who seem consider traditional family life to be the highest form of Christian life. Many of the Ex-gay ministries seem to be Evangelical in nature, which brings me to the second option. If you believe that being gay is wrong and that getting married to someone (of the opposite sex) and having children is something that you should do (not merely could do) then the possibility of becoming heterosexual is very attractive. If you have real faith in the power of Christ and someone in your Church promises you that through prayer you will be 'healed' then the possibility could well seem realistic (and remember these will be people desperate for a solution). I don't think that this could be regarded as the easiest option, just the one whose promised ultimate outcome is most attractive.

Until she can formulate a coherent sentence i don't think anyone whose mind would have been changed is gonna listen, tbh. This kind of media is not aimed at anyone who is gonna be reasonable enough to challenge it.

Sox I agree that she would not for a minute persuade an impartial listener. However I think her message is aimed at those who are already looking for a 'cure' for their homosexuality, they already 'want to believe'. Hence the reason she gets so emotional (or the producer chose someone who would), they wish to avoid such difficult questions as to how they are cured or why God made them that way in the first place, they want to capitalise on vulnerable viewers hope and need for 'change'.

Ultimatley, I don't think that gay atheists (or am I agnostic) such as myself are going to persuade such people who might enter such programs not to. Their faith is very strongly held, and whilst on the one hand it is part of their problem (as I see it) it is what has helped them to cope with life so far. I think that it is fellow Christians who take an enlightened view of Christianity who may be able to show them that it is possible to be both gay and Christian and not self-distruct.

[zeon]

In this world you will get anti gays, anti blacks, anti whites, and the list goes on... We are best to accept their existance than to feel their sorrow for what they are doing...

[Arthur.FWT]

Heh, I should explain, I lived in that area for a few years, and when you've been around people like that the reiteration of the idea that this sort of thing actually happens to real people shakes one every time. It is a peculiarly American thing, but it creeps over here from time to time and there's plenty of it about. I remember being told as a matter of fact by my local Christian-teen circle that homosexual = paedophile and similar junk.

But it is truly weird being around folks like that IRL, so calm, so serene, so full of arbitrary vindictiveness.

As for the "like" thing, yeah like, they do that when they're, like, under stress, like, y'know.

Totally getting one of the "Ex-Hypocrite" shirts.

[zeon]

One thing that bugs me to be honest is labels... I hate being labelled by others and when someone doesnt like a label they try to banish it... Maybe if i did that for my own use then i might find learn from the other side

[marshlander]

Good analysis from Fred.

I was duped into attending a "counselling session" with a Mormon counsellor and supporter of Evergreen once. It took a lot of courage to get angry, but I was suitably incensed. Having gone through a lot of difficulty to be able to realise who I was they wanted to put me through hell again so I could go back to being a screwed-up mess :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Exodus is a very influential group that promises glbt people that they can be "healed". In 1979, Exodus' co-founder Michael Bussee and his partner Gary Cooper quit the group and held a life commitment ceremony. Over eighteen years, eight of the Exodus International ministries have dissolved because the director realized they were still gay. On June 27, 2007 Mr. Bussee, along with fellow former Exodus leaders Jeremy Marks and Darlene Bogle, issued a public apology for their roles in Exodus.

[fredv3b]

Good analysis from Fred.

Cheers Marshy. (Even if I do tend to witter on a bit )