The Err of My Ways

[InbetweenDreams]

So this probably going to be a long thread. The purpose of the thread is to reflect on some things, get some input/feed back. I don't intent to "beat myself up," but I think I was wrong about a lot of critical things and how I also became the "iron in the star." For those of you who don't know, when iron is created from fusion inside a star, the star will die/explode

I think in my case I am my own worst enemy. It's not that I have ill intentions, it's not that I really lack in being nice, sincere, caring. I always seem to be on the mix-up about how things are or where they're going...usually. I think it all starts with getting a crush on whoever that person is and the wheel start turning, start thinking about how great it would be to settle down with this person and la di da da da. However, we all know that's stupid to think that, especially so soon... I don't know why my mind defaults to that thinking when I've barely scratched the surface of someone and it takes a very long time, years to really get a handle on someone...and we're not static, we do change -- some more than others so you can't just assume that whoever this person may be is going to be one you're spending the rest of your life with, because it probably isn't so. So in hindsight right there I am created an imbalance because now I have some kind of goal or want out of this person. I had already tuned out, they can tell me that they want to take it slow or even more so say they want to be friends who occasionally kiss or whatever it is...While I nodded my head and said yeah that's all cool, in my head it's like well maybe...whatever, things will change...and maybe had I actually swallowed the fact and been patient things probably would have changed! Six-months, year? Who knows. Seems that when you're crushing and have all these thoughts it's not that those words don't mean anything, they do they just get covered up and it's more like maybe things will get there, or maybe I'm doing something wrong and we lose are ability to be logical or to be objective about things and it leads to frustration and ultimately ruins things.

So I feel that yes, I made a lot of mistakes. Now I was told it isn't really possible to screw things up and I think I know what is meant because there really are two possible outcomes, either we'll deal with each others crap, shortcomings and so on and get over it or not. However, I do feel that although pretty sure I would be doing myself a disservice, not to mention stress on the other person to keep on attempting to pursue things he didn't want, that I thought I wanted or that he might see it my way and compromise or whatever... I think the thing that bothers me the most is that I had to go off and post something here that he ended up reading to see the forest before the trees, that I couldn't just be a good friend and just drop the issue when it was made pretty clear to me, just didn't allow it to sink in. I do feel bad about that and that's not because I wanted to be his bf, that's because he didn't deserve all that. Ultimately, I wanted now he wants later...and makes sense. I had an illogical wish to be in some kind commitment that was unrealistic. I mean you can make a verbal commitment and slap a label on it, I felt like he might have became interested in someone else and the door would close, because I even felt jealous, because I'm a selfish bastard, not even in anything committed and here I am worried about something I have no right or any business about what he was doing or did. No I don't think it makes me a bad person, probably lot of people get jealous...over nothing, or over things that are, for good reasons, beyond the scope of their control. I mean who wouldn't, he is a great person, you'd be nuts not to be crazy for him... sounds like a for loop that runs to infinity though.

Now that being said, I was not being honest with myself from the start. Having a boyfriend, having a relationship all sounds nice. Now, of course not really having a good reference of what that entails doesn't help. I needed something that was also sexual, I'm just not wired to not wait. I can't be denied that, I think that is in part what made me so damned crazy. I mean here I am, dating an uber attractive guy that I can't touch! I could have drilled a hole in the fucking wall! Now that doesn't mean I want to go around and screw everything that walks or that I want nothing but sex from him or someone else. But I needed something... like having yum yum sauce with my rice, even if it is bad for me. However, I looked at things like I can't just have what I want when I want, things like that ought to be earned. There wasn't really any intimacy and that seemed to be fine at first with me, but as soon as I felt things were idle, I felt he didn't like me all that much which of course that was also wrong and pretty dumb...people that don't like someone don't bother texting or having anything to do with them. I know I'm not the first person to make such a blind assumption, but I do feel it is something that could easily be avoided.

It has been huge relief of stress for me to get some physical contact and be intimate with someone even if you're not in love with that person. I mean me, sometimes it is weeks, months without getting more than a hug or a handshake. So to be able to cuddle in bed, kiss and get a good orgasm just lightens the world that sits on my shoulders. But anyway... Maybe that makes me a slut, I don't care, practically every gay guy I know has had more sex last year than I got in the last 10.

I think although things didn't go well at the end I think I have a better grasp of what love is and how it is very murky. Very easy to get tricked. Be careful with crushes, I think it can be often be a sign of things being unbalanced.

Anyway, despite how awesome I may seem online as being open, nice, etc etc... I am really a mess and I guess many other guys are and I mean even he has issues, but I'm not one to be judging anyone but myself as far as things that need to be worked on... I can judge him on his character, I think he might be a little too prideful... and there's nothing wrong with having pride, he certainly has A LOT to be proud of, but it is also good to be humble. This and other things I'm sure he'll grow out of I mean just how I handled myself, making a hurtful post that I can't change or somehow undo what I was said, I mean I have to live with it...it's not going away. So unless I stop posting on GS, delete my account and pretend this never happened, I'm going to have to accept the fact that I was careless and hurtful to someone without a good reason. Which sucks because I think back on all this and just wished I could have just been a friend which was what he was wanting from the start

Anyway I just hope that those who might be reading this don't go make the same mistakes. So no matter how much you like someone, don't let it consume you, don't be blinded, be honest with yourself and when you're going into something, tell them, if you want intimacy, say so, if you don't want sex, don't want to get wrapped up in a relationship, say so...use 72pt boldface font if you must. I mean it just seems like no matter how clear you can be it just doesn't sink in. I mean look at all the couples, gay and straight, how many stick it out? Not many... Not saying things are to work out, but if they are, it certainly has to go much differently than the way I handled things, because I just didn't miss potentially what might have turned into something great, I miss out on having what would have probably been a great friendship... Of course there's not much sense in dwelling on it and keeping it from letting me live my life, but sucks when things backfire.

Anyway, that's all I have for now. Just if you really do admire, like someone, care about them, don't write or say something you're going to regret, you can't really take that shit back. You can part as friends, just have to pull your head out of your ass. The alternative is writing a boo-hoo-ing post admitting that you fucked it up without needing their help. So yeah I know this was really long, just hope someone out there gets some use from this.

It may have been wrong for me to posts this stuff but don't know that there's anything to lose, other than maybe an angry email or something. Just feels better to get it out.

[MikeW]

...Anyway, that's all I have for now. Just if you really do admire, like someone, care about them, don't write or say something you're going to regret, you can't really take that shit back. You can part as friends, just have to pull your head out of your ass. The alternative is writing a boo-hoo-ing post admitting that you fucked it up without needing their help. So yeah I know this was really long, just hope someone out there gets some use from this.

It may have been wrong for me to posts this stuff but don't know that there's anything to lose, other than maybe an angry email or something. Just feels better to get it out.

It's a cautionary tale.

But the thing is, none of us can be more ___________ <<< fill in the blank, than we ARE. Doesn't matter what anyone says. Sure, we can read cautionary tales, try and make sense of them, apply them to our own lives, our own feelings, but when it comes right down to it, we're all going to make "mistakes". Or, put differently, we're all always up against our real limitations.

The thing is we don't know this. We don't know what our real limitations are. Half the time we think less of ourselves than we should an the rest of the time we think we're more or better or more together or more mature or what have you than we are.

So.... you're learning a lesson. That's how I see it.

I'd even go so far as to say you may be pulling a plug that needn't be pulled. It *always* takes TWO to tangle. True enough, we can all get tangled up in our own self-contradictory machinations, but in terms of a "relationship" (anything from acquaintance on up), it takes TWO to fuck it up.

Ok. So. You didn't listen. You didn't want to hear THEIR truth. You wanted what you wanted (or what you thought you wanted). And understandably so. What young gay man doesn't WANT to have fun times with another guy they find attractive, interesting, nice? Who could blame you for that? And of course you're going to feel "jealous" or fearful of loosing someone if there is no commitment.

It's not easy. It's not easy to take deep breaths and let ourselves and other people JUST BE WHO THEY ARE. It isn't easy knowing our own truth, expressing that truth, living with that truth. It's not easy wanting someone and letting them go...setting them free to be themselves, rather than what we want them to be... all at once.

Life is a learning process. You're learning. Nothing wrong with that. Moreover, things may not be as 'black and white' as you think. IDK but my experience? If I'm going to have a relationship with someone (any kind) its going to happen. If not, it won't. It isn't about screwing it up or not. That's why I say you can't "screw it up". Of course we "can" in the sense of making mistakes. But the question is, can we NOT make mistakes? I say we can't. OR, not put as a double negative, we're ALWAYS going to make mistakes. Always. But... strangely enough... that doesn't mean we won't ever get what we want or desire. We may very well.


LOL... and then we'll discover what a mistake THAT WAS hahahahaha

[Insertnamehere]

All I'll say is that a lot of us (how dare we) are imperfect little creatures making mistakes left and right until we learn from them. And I think a lot us are vastly incompetent when crushing on someone.

For me, it has both led me to a false sense self assurance (and when I made mistakes I had to be told), and to eventually give more than I ended up receving back. And nothing came from those attempts.

*shrugs*

Nothing much to do but dealing with it and learning the lesson

[Camfer]

That's quite a hairball you coughed up there, Ax. Good to get it out.

Almost no two people who get together do so in a perfectly synchronized way. Someone makes the first move. There's a lot of room between enthusiasm and desperation.

If you have a healthy social life with friends, it's easier to date than when you have few friends. As more aspects of your life become rich and fulfilling, the urgency of a boyfriend lessens. So you can take it slower while still enjoying his company. Your agenda is less in the forefront.

Forgiveness is a rare art. It tends to happen only when you are invested in someone. So if someone wants to run away when you say something wrong, take it as an indication that the two of you didn't have much going between you. I can forgive a lot when I've known someone a long time. Less so with some guy I've recently met.

Sure it's great to have a BF. A BF should enhance the life you are already living, not be handing you some lifeline to a save you from the life you are living now.

[LJay]

Accepting ourselves is one of life's most difficult lessons. Until we do, there is no real chance of growth. You're a mess? HA! You have lots of company here. The wise do do become wise without pain AND joy.

You are a good man. Keep on getting better.

[MikeW]

Accepting ourselves is one of life's most difficult lessons. Until we do, there is no real chance of growth. You're a mess? HA! You have lots of company here. The wise do do become wise without pain AND joy.

You are a good man. Keep on getting better.

Wise dodos? Is that like a moronic ox or something? :eek:

[InbetweenDreams]

That's quite a hairball you coughed up there, Ax. Good to get it out.

Almost no two people who get together do so in a perfectly synchronized way. Someone makes the first move. There's a lot of room between enthusiasm and desperation.

If you have a healthy social life with friends, it's easier to date than when you have few friends. As more aspects of your life become rich and fulfilling, the urgency of a boyfriend lessens. So you can take it slower while still enjoying his company. Your agenda is less in the forefront.

Forgiveness is a rare art. It tends to happen only when you are invested in someone. So if someone wants to run away when you say something wrong, take it as an indication that the two of you didn't have much going between you. I can forgive a lot when I've known someone a long time. Less so with some guy I've recently met.

Sure it's great to have a BF. A BF should enhance the life you are already living, not be handing you some lifeline to a save you from the life you are living now.

That's been a thing. Honestly, I don't spend as much time as I want to with friends and don't get to socialize as much as I want. Up until like the last two weeks when I started taking up this triathlon training I had way way too much time on my hands, I mean after all I basically made 1,000+ posts here in about two months, although some were made while it was slow at work. But I had way too much idle time and what's that saying? An idle mind is the devils workshop, well it really is. I think this whole triathlon stuff is going to be more good for me than just losing weight and taking this challenge, I mean I come home and I feel good. I went shopping after the gym and I normally get in a foul mood, I tolerated that place being crowded on a Saturday afternoon. So it is clear there are really good benefits, not just looking in the mirror and liking what I see or whatever.

Well yeah forgiveness is a biggie and all that make sense and him also having formerly posting here and then visiting as a guest user and reading my posts (he may even read this one at some point in the future). It makes it an enviroment for bad things to happen. Technically I should have never joined GS when he told me about GS. Private things get discussed here, I didn't need to read stuff he posted, just like he probably shouldn't be reading stuff I'm posting, even if it was about him. I have no idea what he read or didn't read, but I think he probably read or seen most of what I posted. I did make a few mistakes which did make things dicey for a bit, but yeah I guess looking at things at face value I guess there wasn't a lot between us although it felt like there was, but then again I guess that's one of the things about crushes. Don't get me wrong, I liked him, I valued spending time, I mean I wanted to spend more and more time, which he didn't have time and a whole host of things he had going on which I wasn't aware of. You know I get people not coming out and discussing all their troubles but shit some of the things I tell some of my friends I would be very hesitant to speak about in an anonymous post. I guess people open up easier than others, but just felt bad not knowing, I would have done things very differently with that knowledge.

Anyway, I'm just going to have to deal with it and get over it. Just not make the same mistakes, same pitfalls again.

[LJay]

Indeed, Mike!

It should read "do not" instead of "do do."

[kindy64]

I never text or post anything I wouldn't be comfortable with my boyfriend/partner finding out. He has complete permission and freedom to check my phone. He has trust issues, and it's a small accomodation on my part.

We all have our issues.

I've been finding lately that while I don't ever do anything to intentionally hurt my boyfriends feelings, it's when I don't think about something and just do it, that ends up hurting his feelings. Like being in a bad mood when I get up, and just leaving without saying anything. Not something I think about, I just do it sometimes. Hurts him immensely.

My first boyfriend and I didn't last long because he had no experience with falling in love. He couldn't understand that while I felt like I was falling in love, I wasn't IN LOVE with him. He was afraid that I wanted a commitment he wasn't ready for (being in high school and all.) I even specifically called our relationship non-exclusive boyfriends. We had more dates without some sort of sex then with. I just wanted someone to have fun with and do things with. He was killer at Forza, and we had a lot of fun cooking dinner with each other a couple of times. The defined stage of our involvement only lasted 3 or 4 weeks I think.

My current partner and I have done things mighty different. He moved in first, and we've been working on our relationship since. He has issues with trust (all his prior boyfriends cheated on him,) and was raped right around the time we met, so we've been holding off on sex. To me it's not a big sacrifice. Yes, it's frustrating as all hell, but he's such a unique and vibrant person, he is well worth the wait in my eyes. I wouldn't say it was love at first sight, but when he walked into my apartment (with a guy who wanted me to video their exploits) there was an instant connection. We've learned a lot about each other over the last 8 months. I believe we are both growing as people. We are closer to each other because of all this.

[InbetweenDreams]

That's probably good advice... Although it was sort of a first for me having to handle an odd element (that being GS)...and a few other situations that popped up along the way. At first though when he made his farewell post and telling me he basically deleted his account I took at as also not visiting GS at all...well that wasn't the case and while the post he read was rather innocent, I probably should have stopped there lol...

I DO let my anger get the best of me because if I were really being objective and level headed I wouldn't have made that post, doesn't mean there wouldn't have been other issues... However, yes, I think generally speaking if you're dating someone else who also is on GS or Facebook or anything, probably best to not do so.

However, it all goes back to communicating, there wouldn't be anything to hide if everyone was open, there wouldn't be a reason to come on GS, or Facebook or whatever and bitch about what is going on between the two.