Online Dating

[Meerkat54]

There are no set rules. Learning the ropes is different for everyone. Good guidelines given above. Set realistic boundaries and expectations for the people you meet. That could mean, for instance, that you won't reveal anything that could be used against you until you meet someone in person and develop an in person relationship. Or not baring your ass or soul online. You have to do what's right for you. Protect your emotional and physical wellbeing.

I understand where you're coming from and I completely agree with you. Everything's different for everyone, so whilst I need to be somewhat in self-control of myself, other people are of course probably not gonna be the same.

I'm a logically-minded person - I don't do anything that I can't see any long-term benefit from, so I do make sure not to get dragged into 'swapping' or 'hooking-up' or anything like that. I'm not one of "those" guys and nor do I ever want to be, ultimately. I know I'm only 18 and there's still a lot of stuff for me to experience before I'll probably find that special someone, but either way I like to have my feet on the ground somewhere just so I'm in touch with the "other" world that we guys currently inhabit, and thus if there's an opportunity for something somewhere - even if it's a LGBT parade or something - then I'll look into it. I really want to get more into the LGBT world and spend some physical time (not that type of physical ;P) around other people like me so I can experience a bit more than just a secluded date with some random guy online/IRL.

But of course I am ultimately after something a lot more 'official' and 'real', that of course doesn't involve any one-time stuff. I mean no doubt I'm going to get screwed over one or more times with other guys, but my personal desires are fixed and appropriate.

I'm really not understanding what you mean by this "when we met in person everything sort of escalated rather quickly because we got most of the awkward stuff out of the way beforehand." What's wrong with getting the awkward stuff out of the way beforehand? I'm not following.

There's nothing wrong with getting the awkward stuff out of the way at all, but it was just the way in which it all unfolded. We hadn't dated or met in person for about a month or two, and were thus Skyping/chatting online for ages (partly because I wasn't able to physically go anywhere at the time). During that time you can obviously pick up that we learnt a lot about each other during that time that most other people would have otherwise found out through normal dates.
Getting to know the basics of each other (what we liked, what we did, where we lived) soon grew into late night phone-calls that pretty much had us talking about life and the universe - they were some serious conversations.
As a result when we met in person for the first time, it was at his house. At the time I thought it was alright since we'd already gotten to know each other so much, so in our own way we both trusted each other enough to meet him at his home. His parents had left for a few weeks on a trip so we had the house to ourselves, and obviously we both took this to our advantage so we decided that I would stay at his place for a few days.
The first night we started cuddling and, ultimately, making out. The following few nights we increased the intensity of our kissing sessions but we agreed to never go "all the way", so we just kept making out and jerked/blew each other off. (Dunno if it's too soon for me to be getting so detailed haha - if so, I apologize hahaha. The mods can just edit this down. Either way I've seen a lot of 'detailed' posts around the place so I guess it's ok haha)

Now don't get me wrong. It was an incredible experience just to be with someone else and I enjoyed every minute with him - in the end I didn't want to leave haha. We'd even made it official (privately, at the time) that we were boyfriends. But as the weeks went by I looked back and I was like "No, that just doesn't feel right to me.. That shouldn't have gone the way it did, let alone the fact that ultimately it wasn't what/how I wanted to do things, relationship-wise".
As I previously mentioned I was still trying to figure out a lot of personal things at the time, and me being with him was ultimately, I decided, an experiment/experience that did need to happen for those reasons. And it made me realize that I wasn't OK with it, and that wasn't how I wanted to play it out. I didn't say that to him directly when I broke up with him (dunno whether I should have or not), but I basically said there's too much going on in my life right now and I don't have time for boyfriends, so I didn't lie completely as I still sort of referenced that aspect. I knew that if I told him that I would have pissed him off tenfold (as you would imagine... can you imagine someone saying to you "Hey, those nights we spent together to realize that we now love each other? I really only did that to experiment with my life, sorry."), and he was still a generally nice guy so I would have accepted it if we remained friends, and we did. It took him a while to come around to the realization that it was over and I had moved on rather quickly, but he got there.

So that's the story of my first experience. Probably posted in the wrong thread so I'll put it in the "First Experiences" thread as well, but given the circumstances I believe I needed to explain it a bit more fully. But does that explain a majority of things?

As someone who hasn't dated in the current century, err, millennium, and may very well never date again, and has no idea how to date using "apps" or any of that stuff.... I have to ask:

What does "dating" MEAN to you? What's the point of "dating" anyone? Why do it?

Are you expecting me to literally answer that or for me to ask that question to myself? If the former, "dating" to me is a little more than just "meeting someone" - whether it's online or IRL. There needs to be some sort of meaning behind the date. We both need to like each other, of course, and thus have a good time in whatever activity we're doing. To be ourselves is also a strong element. We need to share some sort of connection whether it's as simple as us both liking each other enough to meet, or as elevated as holding each other's hands when we reach for the cheque. Or something.
The point of dating anyone, and why, is to me to distract the mind from everyday hassles, and have a bit of freedom/fun with said people you meet. After all, loved ones are there for you to talk to, so you could unload on your date (if you think it appropriate), or just have enough general fun so as to not worry about anything else.
Dating exists in this world for the same reasons that social events do. You get to be around other people, new or same, and enjoy yourself/"blend in" with the crowd and become lost in the moment. Like I said, it's a distraction, but in a good way.
If that makes any sense.

Don't assume that everyone you meet, online or IRL, has the same AGENDA you do when they use the word "dating". They very likely do not. But if you know what YOU mean by it, what YOU want to have happen (and not happen), that right there should be a pretty good guide as to what to do or not do, what to say and not.

That's pretty much as straightforward as it would ever get. Thank you for that.
Like I said to [MENTION=22879]kindy64[/MENTION] though, I know what it is that I'm after so I know how to control (at least personally) that aspect of dating, so I can get what it is I want.

Part of it for sure is finding them attractive but there's WAY more to it than that. One has to be READY to have that kind of relationship ... My point being that at age 18 the chances of finding someone your own age, or near it, who is also ready for a "R" relationship is very slim. You may think you're ready... but really? Are you?

100% agree. I've often tossed up, and quite frankly I'm still tossing up every now and then whether I am actually ready for a relationship of any kind - financially, emotionally and physically. Maybe not so much financially as that's a sort of derailing factor to a relationship, but ultimately I don't think I'll ever know if I'm ready or not until I actually take the steps that I want to take in getting one. The question of being "Ready" or not is a very complicated and diverse question, in most cases, and my view to that scenario is to just go for it. You never know what will happen and so you don't know if you'll enjoy it or not, or in this case, consider yourself "Ready". The only way to find out, respectively, is to just go for it, which I know can and cannot be a bad thing. But I guess, how else would you typically know?

There's NOTHING wrong with being a young person who is "dating"... going out with other people... to have fun, get to know them, find out more about yourself, what you like and don't like... becoming more of a full-grown adult. Nothing at all wrong with it. But it doesn't HAVE to be "dating". A "R" relationship can evolve out of meeting someone totally by chance. Or it can evolve out of just hooking up with someone. Or it could be someone you meet through school or work or some sport you like to participate in. WHO KNOWS?

Exactly. There's lots of things I ultimately want to do in life that'll give me a huge array of opportunities to meet new people. I've tried online dating before but if nothing good comes out of this current dating thing I'm on I guess I'll take that literally and just go about my life like so.
The only problem with that is, however, is that finding another openly gay guy in the big wide world isn't really that easy. Whereas on gay dating apps/social services there's a whole bunch of communities and people who are effectively just like you, which of course makes everything slightly more easier. I mean I could walk into the center of Melbourne and scream "I'M GAY!", and the odd 5% of people in the crowd around me who are also gay won't even acknowledge their own sexuality and come talking to me.
I mean the odds of that happening anyway are totally ludicrous, gut you get my point.

In having said that, however:

Keeping open to just meeting people, respecting them, getting to know them, letting them get to know you... to me that's all there is to it. THEN... if you meet someone you want to get to know better... THEN you can "date".

That is still an option. Whilst a more long-term solution (and by long-term I mean it will most likely take a long time for anything serious to come out of just meeting someone), it would have a lot of various benefits in other long-term situations. Either way, of course I'd need to discover if they're gay or not at all before I decide if it would be worth posing the 'question' to them. I mean that could result in all sorts of things, negative or positive, but it might not still benefit me.

Prior to that even calling what you're doing "dating" (to my mind) kind of puts one under pressure. OH... I have to do this right!

Well, no, actually you don't.

You're right. I should just be myself when talking to guys online. Initially in my first post I was mainly just after when would be the right times to say certain things/bring up certain topic, but either way that should all come naturally if I am of course myself.

But like I say, WTF do I know anyway?

Hahaha, very true. Not just for your sake, but for everyone's. Personally I think that the world of LGBT is still very mysterious, in its own ways, so what do any of us know?? :confused:

[MikeW]

...
There's nothing wrong with getting the awkward stuff out of the way at all, but it was just the way in which it all unfolded. We hadn't dated or met in person for about a month or two, and were thus Skyping/chatting online for ages (partly because I wasn't able to physically go anywhere at the time). During that time you can obviously pick up that we learnt a lot about each other during that time that most other people would have otherwise found out through normal dates.

Yeah. In this day and age it isn't uncommon for people to meet online and get to know one another that way. Hell, that's what we're doing here in a collective sense on GS, right? It's a bit of a "community"... some know one another better than others. Some become real friends, or possibly even more. ... but lets go on...

Getting to know the basics of each other (what we liked, what we did, where we lived) soon grew into late night phone-calls that pretty much had us talking about life and the universe - they were some serious conversations.

Yeah, been there done that, too.

As a result when we met in person for the first time, it was at his house. At the time I thought it was alright since we'd already gotten to know each other so much, so in our own way we both trusted each other enough to meet him at his home. His parents had left for a few weeks on a trip so we had the house to ourselves, and obviously we both took this to our advantage so we decided that I would stay at his place for a few days.
The first night we started cuddling and, ultimately, making out. The following few nights we increased the intensity of our kissing sessions but we agreed to never go "all the way", so we just kept making out and jerked/blew each other off.

Sounds good to me...

Now don't get me wrong. It was an incredible experience just to be with someone else and I enjoyed every minute with him - in the end I didn't want to leave haha. We'd even made it official (privately, at the time) that we were boyfriends. But as the weeks went by I looked back and I was like "No, that just doesn't feel right to me.. That shouldn't have gone the way it did, let alone the fact that ultimately it wasn't what/how I wanted to do things, relationship-wise".

Ok, well, IDK why you felt that way. I mean, I appreciate that people feel however they feel and they have every right to feel however they feel. But that doesn't necessarily mean their "feeling" is "objective". It's just what they feel. To me, I'm left wondering why you felt that way... but lets go on...

As I previously mentioned I was still trying to figure out a lot of personal things at the time, and me being with him was ultimately, I decided, an experiment/experience that did need to happen for those reasons. And it made me realize that I wasn't OK with it, and that wasn't how I wanted to play it out.

OK, but why not? Of course I'm a total stranger. You don't owe me anything, let alone some kind of explanation or rationalization. I'm just not getting it. I get that is how you felt, how you daw it, but I don't understand it.

I didn't say that to him directly when I broke up with him (dunno whether I should have or not), but I basically said there's too much going on in my life right now and I don't have time for boyfriends, so I didn't lie completely as I still sort of referenced that aspect. I knew that if I told him that I would have pissed him off tenfold (as you would imagine... can you imagine someone saying to you "Hey, those nights we spent together to realize that we now love each other? I really only did that to experiment with my life, sorry."), and he was still a generally nice guy so I would have accepted it if we remained friends, and we did. It took him a while to come around to the realization that it was over and I had moved on rather quickly, but he got there.

Ok, so, because you had a fling with a guy that didn't move toward becoming something more, there was something wrong with that? You feel like you were "using" him or something? I don't get it. Of course you were experimenting. It was your FIRST time, right? You were seeing what you liked and didn't like. You had a good time. AND, yeah, you two shared more than just sex, too. You became friends.

All I'm saying is this sounds perfectly "natural" to me. Almost ideal in a way. But it also seems like you're somehow uncomfortable with it, or the way you went about it, as if you should have done it differently. That's what I don't get. How could you have done it differently than you did? You did what young men do... you explore and learn about yourself and life. Good for you! LOL!! Nuts' wrong with that at all.

So that's the story of my first experience. Probably posted in the wrong thread so I'll put it in the "First Experiences" thread as well, but given the circumstances I believe I needed to explain it a bit more fully. But does that explain a majority of things?

Well, LOL, sort of.

... "dating" to me is a little more than just "meeting someone" - whether it's online or IRL. There needs to be some sort of meaning behind the date. We both need to like each other, of course, and thus have a good time in whatever activity we're doing. To be ourselves is also a strong element. We need to share some sort of connection whether it's as simple as us both liking each other enough to meet, or as elevated as holding each other's hands when we reach for the cheque. Or something.

So romantic.

The point of dating anyone, and why, is to me to distract the mind from everyday hassles, and have a bit of freedom/fun with said people you meet. After all, loved ones are there for you to talk to, so you could unload on your date (if you think it appropriate), or just have enough general fun so as to not worry about anything else.
Dating exists in this world for the same reasons that social events do. You get to be around other people, new or same, and enjoy yourself/"blend in" with the crowd and become lost in the moment. Like I said, it's a distraction, but in a good way.
If that makes any sense.

Well, sort of. I never thought of "dating" as a means of distraction, though. I have Netflix and porn tumblrs for that.

That's pretty much as straightforward as it would ever get. Thank you for that.
Like I said to [MENTION=22879]kindy64[/MENTION] though, I know what it is that I'm after so I know how to control (at least personally) that aspect of dating, so I can get what it is I want.

Which is?

I've often tossed up, and quite frankly I'm still tossing up every now and then whether I am actually ready for a relationship of any kind - financially, emotionally and physically. Maybe not so much financially as that's a sort of derailing factor to a relationship, but ultimately I don't think I'll ever know if I'm ready or not until I actually take the steps that I want to take in getting one. The question of being "Ready" or not is a very complicated and diverse question, in most cases, and my view to that scenario is to just go for it. You never know what will happen and so you don't know if you'll enjoy it or not, or in this case, consider yourself "Ready". The only way to find out, respectively, is to just go for it, which I know can and cannot be a bad thing. But I guess, how else would you typically know?

Fair point. Yeah, we never really "know" and, in fact, I'd go so far as to say most people are NEVER *ready* for a relationship. Rather, relationships are organic things. They grow as the people in them grow. That's a good relationship. Right now I'm emailing back and forth every day, sometimes twice a day, with a gay couple that have only been together for less than a year. They've gone through some HELL. I'm not going to gossip so I can't tell you, but suffice it to say it is the kind of stuff that would have broken apart MOST relationships. BUT... that's the point. They are NOT "most"relationships. They truly do love one another and are determined to stick together and HELP ONE ANOTHER GROW through the pain they've both had to endure in their lives. And the acting out that pain produced.

So, yeah, it isn't exactly a matter of being ready or not being ready. It's a matter of having the where-with-all to BE there with and for another human being who is simultaneously BEING there with you. And choosing to be come hell and high water. Mutually.

There's lots of things I ultimately want to do in life that'll give me a huge array of opportunities to meet new people. I've tried online dating before but if nothing good comes out of this current dating thing I'm on I guess I'll take that literally and just go about my life like so.
The only problem with that is, however, is that finding another openly gay guy in the big wide world isn't really that easy. Whereas on gay dating apps/social services there's a whole bunch of communities and people who are effectively just like you, which of course makes everything slightly more easier. I mean I could walk into the center of Melbourne and scream "I'M GAY!", and the odd 5% of people in the crowd around me who are also gay won't even acknowledge their own sexuality and come talking to me.
I mean the odds of that happening anyway are totally ludicrous, gut you get my point.

Yeah, I do. I grew up in a different era. I didn't even know there WERE other gay people in the world until I was 16 years old (see the URL in my signature). You young guys KNOW even before you know what it means, really. You're able to talk with other gay guys all over the world. Look at this forum for one tiny example. So... it is a different social reality than the one I grew up in. This is one of the reasons I hesitate to say much about "dating" at all. Like I said, I haven't in this millennium and don't know that I ever will. Texting and all the stuff that goes on online via Grindr and Hornet, Chatterbate and all that... totally alien to me. I have a sort of weird "sociologists" fascination with it all... but I don't know how to "play" in that arena.

That said, the point is, to me, it is meant to be "played" in. It's like cyber-romper-room for adults (and want-a-be adults). You learn about sex virtually. You get to know someone, possibly even jerk-off with them, without ever touching them, feeling the texture of their skin and hair, or smelling their breath or other body odors. You actually only know an IMAGE of the person... and this may be part of the problem here. I'm not sure. Haven't really thought this through.

...Either way, of course I'd need to discover if they're gay or not at all before I decide if it would be worth posing the 'question' to them. I mean that could result in all sorts of things, negative or positive, but it might not still benefit me.

It's one of the weird thing about being gay. Unless you're not straight in some OBVIOUS way, everyone assumes you ARE straight. Worse, a lot of guys aren't comfortable being fully out for whatever reason. So... yeah... it can get tricky to say the least.

But, again, IDK... are we still talking about "dating"??

Prior to that even calling what you're doing "dating" (to my mind) kind of puts one under pressure. OH... I have to do this right!

Well, no, actually you don't.

You're right. I should just be myself when talking to guys online. Initially in my first post I was mainly just after when would be the right times to say certain things/bring up certain topic, but either way that should all come naturally if I am of course myself.

I understand the impulse to want to do "this" right. We all want to do things "right". But what does that mean exactly? For example, if I have an agenda... lets say I want to get into your pants... if I have that as my end-game, then doing it "right" is doing whatever it takes to make that happen. Welll ... personally I have a bit of a problem with that kind of thinking. I certainly UNDERSTAND that kind of thinking, been there, done that. I also understand those URGES we get.

It just seems to me we all need to ease up a bit. Give ourselves and everyone else a break. It's ok to just hook up with someone. It's ok to have a 'fling' for a few weeks. It's ok to have a FWB. It's ok to meet someone we really enjoy being with and wanting to be with more. It's ok if SOME of the people we enjoy being with are men who are NOT gay. It's ok just to stop being so fucking up-tight and "in control" of everything we do.

Personally I think that the world of LGBT is still very mysterious, in its own ways, so what do any of us know?? :confused:

LOL... Got that right. I've known I was gay for over a half century now and sometimes I feel as clueless as anyone else. Like WTF? The difference is my life is "been there done that" to most things you young men have not. Long term relationships. Breakups. Deaths, even. Two of them in my case. A whole life has been lived in the past half century+. And it ain't over yet. Weary ME!

hahaha

[thawoods]

i have to say, i am very much a veteran when it comes to online dating, had a couple of meet-ups on PlanetRomeo and other sites x

[Meerkat54]

Ok, well, IDK why you felt that way.

...

OK, but why not? Of course I'm a total stranger. You don't owe me anything, let alone some kind of explanation or rationalization. I'm just not getting it. I get that is how you felt, how you daw it, but I don't understand it.

...

Ok, so, because you had a fling with a guy that didn't move toward becoming something more, there was something wrong with that?

To be honest, I was just really confused with everything at the time. I didn't know what to think or how to react to anything after what had happened, and as a result I didn't think I was ready for any form of relationship so I moved on.

I think, because it was my first experience, I was a little disappointed in myself. Now I know you're going to ask why but;

"I know what it is that I'm after..."

Which is?

The way I sort of envisioned a personal relationship was to meet someone, whether online or IRL, and gradually get to know them without rushing into anything. To have a 'natural', sort of 'pure' relationship. (Call me whatever you want... perfectionist, dreamer, the like.. that's just my desire haha) I mean we had both agreed to "let things run naturally", but I think we both knew what we both "wanted" and so we took it a little bit further than I had ultimately wanted it to. I mean of course, I was fine with it at the time, but like I said it just didn't feel right to me in the long run.

I can't give a straight answer as to why it didn't feel right, because I don't quite know how to explain it. All I know is that it just didn't feel right to me the more I thought about it, both mentally and emotionally. It wasn't what I ultimately wanted.

The best way to somewhat explain it was that it was my first ever experience with anyone, and I was 17 at the time. Let's just say I hadn't exactly seen myself in that sort of situation, which is what caught me off guard.

All I'm saying is this sounds perfectly "natural" to me. Almost ideal in a way. But it also seems like you're somehow uncomfortable with it, or the way you went about it, as if you should have done it differently. That's what I don't get. How could you have done it differently than you did? You did what young men do... you explore and learn about yourself and life. Good for you! LOL!! Nuts' wrong with that at all.

Whilst you are right, it may indeed sound perfectly natural/ideal, but in the end it conflicted with my personal desires for a relationship. I mean yes we got to chat to each other over texts/webcam so we did get to know quite a lot about each other, but there weren't any physical dates. I think that's what my problem was. All that buildup really did was to get us to trust each other in person - dates or otherwise. But considering we proceeded on with the latter, it felt more of a hookup to me. Not an actual long-term 'intimate' connection. I'd let my body jump in the way of my feelings/desires and jumped the gun into something rather serious, that to me should have unfolded naturally over the course of several weeks/months, and not be all done through online dating.

Again, call me a perfectionist or a dreamer or whatever. To have an ideal relationship like that is indeed the wish of a daydreamer, but still, that's what I want.

So, yeah, it isn't exactly a matter of being ready or not being ready. It's a matter of having the where-with-all to BE there with and for another human being who is simultaneously BEING there with you. And choosing to be come hell and high water. Mutually.

Fair point. It is definitely more about having the ability/potential to actually have a relationship, as there's much more to one than just being "ready" for it. You've got to meet their families, help them through their problems, etc. and vice versa. Hell, a relationship in itself is pretty much a job. You don't do it well you're gonna get fired. Literally.

That said, the point is, to me, it is meant to be "played" in. It's like cyber-romper-room for adults (and want-a-be adults). You learn about sex virtually. You get to know someone, possibly even jerk-off with them, without ever touching them, feeling the texture of their skin and hair, or smelling their breath or other body odors. You actually only know an IMAGE of the person... and this may be part of the problem here.

I think I do understand where you're coming from though. Because, as we mentioned, the world of LGBT is vastly mysterious, the only way we're really going to learn a lot about it is through various online interactions. It's not every day you come across a gay guy who decides to talk to you about life and the universe IRL, so doing that sort of stuff online can help one discover a bit more about it.

That said, you really only discover a bit more about yourself, in those circumstances. It's not like the world is actively trying to unlock the secrets to Adam and Eve. You come here yourself, personally, to find out more about it and/or yourself so that you in turn can contribute to places such as these, by talking about the experiences that you've had and the things you've discovered personally. Because let's face it, almost every fact that someone comes up with regarding LGBT is different in some way, and that's because they've discovered it for themself and were able to relate for it.
(I may just be talking out of my arse there, so redirect me if I'm boarding the loopy-train :p)

But, again, IDK... are we still talking about "dating"??

I think it's all related, really. I mean you come across online dating experiences just by looking for information, whether it's someone's reply to your post in which they think exactly the same and think you're twins or something, or just a random chat-plugin on the side of a page with the title "MEET LOCAL GUYS IN YOUR AREA".
But if we're derailing then we could move that topic elsewhere. Haha.

It just seems to me we all need to ease up a bit. Give ourselves and everyone else a break. It's ok to just hook up with someone. It's ok to have a 'fling' for a few weeks. It's ok to have a FWB. It's ok to meet someone we really enjoy being with and wanting to be with more. It's ok if SOME of the people we enjoy being with are men who are NOT gay. It's ok just to stop being so fucking up-tight and "in control" of everything we do.

Hahaha, I get your point. It's like there's too many 'rules' that are being applied to dating, or stories revolving around certain situations that you need to be aware of. Especially when they're publicized by social media, it's sort of a misleading interpretation of the dating world. "Oh this guy's a wife basher so we all need to be extra careful of what we do with our loved ones/people we meet". Not in the slightest. I mean obviously you don't want to be running in that guy's footsteps, but you don't need to feel intimidated by everything that happens on TV/the Internet. Just be yourself and do what you feel is right. And if you do something wrong then you'll learn from personal experience, not from a reporter behind a desk showcasing a 100 year anniversary of some random couple's relationship.

[kindy64]

You are a very thoughtful and articulate young man.

I think you are putting too much pressure on yourself to do everything the "right" way. I think that's what everyone is saying, there is no "right" way. They only thing that is right is not harming others in your pursuit of satisfying your own needs. There is no correct order for a relationship to grow.

You might want to look for a local LGBT youth group so you can connect with others in person.

This site came up first in my search for "north melbourne gay youth"

http://www.rainbownetwork.com.au/index.php/find-a-group

[LJay]

More action please. Avoid compulsive analysis.

[MikeW]

This quoting back and forth business is getting cumbersome, [MENTION=22213]Meerkat54[/MENTION], so I'm going to forego that.

First off, thanks for the reply and your sincerity.

Most of my not understanding has to do with me, not you. Keep that in mind. Part of it is growing up in a different culture and era. A large part of it is I started fooling around erotically with other boys near my age even before I was a teenager. It was weird because this was in a rural environment and TV had only recently come into our lives. So we knew nothing about "gay". Like that thread URL in my signature, I had no idea there even WERE other "gay" people. I knew there were cock sucking faggots because I was clearly one of them. What was doubly weird is how on one hand being a cock sucking faggot was something shameful that had to be kept hidden from everyone, especially adults. While, on the other hand, there were quite a few boys that I knew who liked doing it (both giving and receiving). So... it was a bizarre kind of disconnect between reality and pretense.

Obviously you've grown up in a completely different social environment. I don't know much about how you came to realize you were gay or homosexual, or what struggles you've gone through around that, self-acceptance, etc. I do get that this experience you're talking about was your first. But I also get that somehow or other it didn't feel right and you ended up feeling "a little disappointed in" yourself.

To me this can get rather philosophical. Let me explain what I mean. I have nothing else to do at the moment, LOL! Hopefully you won't think it long winded and boring.

One of the things I've learned through life is that none of us can predict the future, not in detail anyway. Yes, we can predict the sun will come up tomorrow. We can predict a lot of what will happen during that day. We'll get out of bed. We'll do our morning routine. We'll go to work or school or hang out. We'll have lunch and dinner. We'll talk to people.... etc. All this is more or less "predictable".

BUT what is not predictable is the fine detail that makes these generalities SPECIFIC events. I can't say exactly what will happen, only what I generally assume will happen based on past experience. I can even plan out a lot of details -- I'm going to meet a friend at a set time, at a set location, and we're going to have a meal and then we're going to a movie. I even know what movie we're going to see. All well and good. But still, the DETAILS of all that are unknown UNTIL they actually occur. That is, until we become aware of them. [This is inline with Schrödinger's cat if you know anything about that hypothetical beast.]

I mention all this because it's a kind of conundrum. On one hand, we all need to be "in control" of our lives; or at least feel as though we are to some extent. But the reality is that none of us actually ARE in control, or, at least, not as much as we may think.

As someone who has lived on the planet for almost 70 years now, I've grown rather comfortable with NOT knowing, not even TRYING to predict, exactly what's going to happen next. In fact, I rather enjoy not knowing. It keeps life interesting. Although right now I'm writing and trying to say something that hopefully makes sense, the truth is I have no idea whether or not it will make sense to you or anyone else, and I don't know exactly which words are going to spill out of my fingers next. I'm just "going with the flow" of it.

That's the way I like to live my life as much as possible. "Going with the flow" of it. I *could* (for example) put a lot of energy into *making something happen*. Something I *want* to have happen. Like sex. I haven't had real sex in so long I've almost forgotten what it's like. I sometimes joke that I've become a virgin all over again. Sex is fun! It's enjoyable. BUT... making it happen... can be rather tedious. It depends on a lot of different things. For me, anyway, although I have had a lot of sex in my life, I've never been overly promiscuous. Not at all into random hookups or anonymous sex. I like to know who I'm with and at least like them a little bit! And at my age I just don't have the patience I did a long time ago to, you know, put my best foot forward, trying to LOOK attractive, attention worthy and all that. To me it just seems like too much work! If it happens it happens. If not, NBD.

Going with the flow of it.

IDK, I guess young men today feel they can't just do that. They feel they have to "do it right". Whatever that may mean. And I can understand... better to "do it right" than to "do it wrong" I guess.

But as [MENTION=20933]LJay[/MENTION] has suggested, perhaps what's needed (in your case -- this isn't true for everyone) is to loosen up, 'more action, less analysis.'

You wrote:

...You come here yourself, personally, to find out more about it and/or yourself so that you in turn can contribute to places such as these, by talking about the experiences that you've had and the things you've discovered personally. Because let's face it, almost every fact that someone comes up with regarding LGBT is different in some way, and that's because they've discovered it for themself and were able to relate for it.
(I may just be talking out of my arse there, so redirect me if I'm boarding the loopy-train )

No, I don't think you are talking out of your ass... You're expressing how you understand all this -- and yourself -- so far.

[quote]...Just be yourself and do what you feel is right. And if you do something wrong then you'll learn from personal experience...[/qoute]
Yeah, pretty much. I'd advise not being afraid to take a few risks. Within reason, understand. I'm not advocating throwing all caution to the wind. But if we alway stay "safe" then, well, how can we ever grow and fully discover the unknown (in ourselves or the world)?

[kindy64]

You really ought to write a book Mike...

We can plan things to the utmost detail, but we don't know what's going to happen, until it happens. Life gets in the way of plans. You're going to a movie with a friend, and you're stuck on the highway in traffic, making you miss the movie.

Or like me, I plan on staying away from younger guys, and a 19 year old walks into my life and I can't live without him.

[Meerkat54]

I agree with you @[MENTION]MikeW[/MENTION], the quoting is getting a bit tedious haha.

But thank you for your post. It was very insightful and interesting to read. I do understand what you're saying and I can agree wholeheartedly that you can never predict every little detail of what is going to happen, so you just have to indeed "go with the flow".

As a generalized short answer (considering our posts seem to be getting longer and longer lol...), I can say that my initial question has been answered not just once, but several times in many different ways.
The thing that is indeed coming up the most is to "just be yourself" and not worry about any "rules" or anything, and I think honestly that's the best advice you can give me. As long as I'm myself it doesn't matter how other people act, ultimately. If they don't want to talk as much or aren't as eager to do anything then it's not entirely my fault, I'm only being myself.

Either way I think it's quite clear how I should act as opposed to how I "should" act, so I think it's pretty straightforward from here. Thanks guys I look forward to entering more discussions like this. I do enjoy it!


@[MENTION]kindy64[/MENTION]

The system won't let me quote you properly for some reason, but;

You are a very thoughtful and articulate young man.

Aw, you!
Haha well I try ;P

You might want to look for a local LGBT youth group so you can connect with others in person.

Funny you should mention that. I've already 'joined' a group called Minus18 that also specializes in that field. By 'joined' however I've really only liked the Facebook group as of this moment, I'm not exactly sure how or if I can even 'join' it. I think the main purpose of it is for it to just host/support public LGBT events that people can freely participate in if they want to, so either way there's some opportunities for things like that there.

You really ought to write a book Mike...

I agree. Mike you have a lot to offer in the way of LGBT topics, and whether you do actually know what you're talking about or not there really is no right or wrong behind whichever topic you talk about. Like we've discussed, the LGBT world is vastly mysterious, but if you can provide an informative opinion or even just some basic knowledge that is still very insightful, and put that onto a piece of paper, I can almost see a lot of people going to it for some sort of advice.
But like I said, there is no right or wrong to whatever you put on that said piece of paper. As long as that one big mystery still exists, you can get away with writing almost anything.


Edit: Hey, my 54th post! Too bad this is the only time it's going to be my 54th... :crying-and-sorry-li