Orlando: An unexpected point of view

[InbetweenDreams]

I think most all Americans would be against any kind of home inspection...invasion of privacy...now we're getting into the 4th amendment lol. The rest of what you say makes sense and I think a good portion of gun owners are responsible, keep them locked up and know how to use them and use them for hunting, sport and so on.

It is a very hard sell on assault rifles and semi-automatic weapons, military grade and so on.

[SilverBullet]

From my point of view,
We have a measure of gun control
IE no nukes
no grenade launchers or missiles xD
Or even Automatic Rifles unless you jump through a ton of hoops and have friends in hi places .

But, although the media makes it out like assault rifle are the devil, keep in mind what someone can do with fertilizer and gasoline.
Also while an assault rifle is designed for killing a 200 pound man most hunting rifles are designed for killing a 1,200 pound moose and is even more deadly.
ALBEIT not in the MASS shooting kind as the clip size is more limited lets go back to fertilizer and gasoline.

I think there comes a point when we look at, can a gun kill people? in the hands of the wrong guy it can.
can a car kill people? again under the correct circumstances yes.

the deaths by assault rifles are a SMALL percentage of deaths in the usa. much smaller than most other things IE Knives, pistols, cars, even malpractice by doctors.

And in normal circumstances nobody would NEED a assault rifle but the point of the second amendment is to protect the people from the government. Although this may sound comical that we may in the future need to protect ourselfs, it has in many countries throughout history occurred and it would be foolish to believe it can never happen here. The more angry citizens get, the more more likely they are to elect with ought deep thought. And the only thing that protects our rights, (the constitution) is merely a piece of paper that the government may choose to re interpret and re interpret over and over.

Where I work we have several guns in the building, I may be wrong but id like to think if someone came in to shoot the place we would be able to put down a lone gun man.

I think one of the better ways to protect people from a shooter is to have guns (NOT BY THE PUBLIC) but by the owner and possibly some staff.

We can look at the usa and say due to openness of guns thats the reason for the problems, then we can look at countries like Switzerland who actually SUPPLY adult men with assault rifles and provide training for them and they do not have NEAR the crime of the usa. Guns themselfs are not the problem, we need to id the problem properly and find a solution that is not disarming the citizens.

some people would say, well, its just assault rifles. Well assault rifles are current target, what happens when people cause murders with something else? we ban that too? cars, do we ban cars? bats? blunt weapons or knifes??

ANYWAY, sorry that was soo long just thought id give you my opinion as to how I see things, and I may be completely wrong or stupid to you but just my opinion.

[Emiliano]

NPR's Code Switch is a new podcast that I've found pretty interesting so far and this morning I listened to an episode they had on the Orlando Shooting. The whole article is interesting, but the last segment has to do with a gay Muslim perspective on what happened. It might be of interest to some on here too.

http://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch/2...-episode-4


Since the conversation here is turning to gun control, I'll add this too:
http://www.cc.com/video-clips/o5lyhg/the...o-shooting

The comparison Trever Noah makes to 9/11 and how we changed the way that we handle security in airports and on airplanes to the conversation and actions that need to be taken in response to mass shootings, I thought was a very interesting one. We still have airplanes - you can still buy a ticket and board a plane and fly everywhere you want. But we have tightened security in order to help make sure that something like 9/11 doesn't happen again - that airplanes could be used as weapons to kill thousands. I personally agree that we should have the right to own guns, I don't think they should be banned or made impossible to get. But what people should have to go through to get access to those guns should be reevaluated.

Yes, criminals are going to find a way to get guns and commit crimes. Making laws or increasing security measures is not a promise that things won't happen again - law breakers who are willing to murder people are not going to let a law stop them. But it might make it more difficult for them. It's amazing how many mass shooters obtained the weapons they used legally. If the Orlando shooter was suspected of having terrorist links, how was he able to get a gun like that? Because it is way too easy to get guns that go beyond hunting and personal protection in this country.

People want to talk about PC culture and special interest groups in this country - lets point a mirror at the gun lobby and the donations made by the NRA to lawmakers, and how speaking out about gun control is nearly, if not more taboo, than explicit racism and xenophobia in this country.

Now this is another tangent, but to go back to what I was saying about how race plays into our reaction to events. Why is it that some people can walk into restaurants with guns and it's them exercising their constitutional right, but other people will get shot immediately because it's perceived that they have a gun, even if they don't actually have one. Why is it that the color of our skin seems to be correlated to how much of a threat a person is?

[InbetweenDreams]

Why is it that the color of our skin seems to be correlated to how much of a threat a person is?

I think it is mostly appearance. I mean if someone, whether they're black, white, brown...whatever, comes in wearing a khakis and a tie no one is going to bat an eye. Same person dressed like Jessie out of Breaking Bad, well probably going to get some attention. That's how I see it, now just because someone is dressed like a gangster doesn't mean they are either.

[Emiliano]

I think it is mostly appearance. I mean if someone, whether they're black, white, brown...whatever, comes in wearing a khakis and a tie no one is going to bat an eye. Same person dressed like Jessie out of Breaking Bad, well probably going to get some attention. That's how I see it, now just because someone is dressed like a gangster doesn't mean they are either.

If thats how you see it, you might want to get your eyes checked.

[InbetweenDreams]

If thats how you see it, you might want to get your eyes checked.

Why because I judge someone based on their appearance and not their race?

[Emiliano]

Why because I judge someone based on their appearance and not their race?

That's not what I'm saying. I wasn't questioning you and your behaviors.

I'm talking about the way that our social institutions perceive and react to skin color. Which is very much connected to what I was talking about in my first reply in this thread.
I'm talking about the narrative we are fed by media. Which is very much connected to what you were talking about in your first reply to me in this thread.

I just think that respectability politics are rather dismissive. If a black kid wears a hoodie, he's asking to get shot. If a women wears a short skirt, she is asking to get raped. If a gay man is flamboyant, he is asking to get attacked. If a Latina woman speaks Spanish, she is asking to have her status questioned. If a Trans person isn't passing, they are asking to be murdered. If a Sikh man wears a turban and boards an airplane, he is asking to get the flight cancelled.

The thing with respectability politics is that it places blame on the people who are having an injustice carried out on them. The excessive force and brutality used against many people in this country is not a black problem. Its not a fashion problem. Its a police problem.
When we talk about a lot of the race relations in this country, we shouldn't celebrate how far black people have come. We should celebrate how far white people have come.
Systemic racism in this country is not, nor has it ever been, a minority problem.

Henry Louis Gates Jr wasn't sagging his pants when he was arrested for breaking into his own house. James Blake wasn't wearing a chain when he got tackled in Midtown. Yvette Smith wasn't wearing booty shorts when she got shot for opening her front door. Emmett Till wasn't listening to gansta rap when he got lynched. I could go on, but you probably get the point.

Thinking that if people talk a certain way or dress a certain way is going to solve the broader problem, is not only a false promise, it is a failure to see the broader problem. It might be a very nice thing to say, and certainly a beautiful sentiment, to not see color. But being color blind in that sense is really something only a select group of people in this country can claim. And even if you honestly don't see color, it doesn't mean color is not there. It just means that you're not seeing it.

That's why I said you might need to get your eyes checked. Because whether its your rose glasses - or your white ones - something might be clouding your view.

[InbetweenDreams]

Thinking that if people talk a certain way or dress a certain way is going to solve the broader problem, is not only a false promise, it is a failure to see the broader problem. It might be a very nice thing to say, and certainly a beautiful sentiment, to not see color. But being color blind in that sense is really something only a select group of people in this country can claim. And even if you honestly don't see color, it doesn't mean color is not there. It just means that you're not seeing it.

That's why I said you might need to get your eyes checked. Because whether its your rose glasses - or your white ones - something might be clouding your view.

We should be judging based on character. However when it comes to if someone might pull out a gun and start shooting people you have to go by what you can observe.

I think society in this country has gone down the shitter, that or I'm just realizing just how it is.

I judge people on their character. If I'm standing in line at Burger King (I don't eat at Burger King ever) if someone is making me nervous or concerned, it is based on their appearance, body language...maybe they're being a douchebag to the cashier or something along those lines.

I think there is a big problem with law enforcement being way too trigger happy. Just in general there are so many cases where violence in general could have been prevented. There is definitely a racial issue with law enforcement, the question is why does it exist in the first place? I don't think the cops are all racist, yeah I'm sure there's a few bigots in the bunch, a pretty good number of all around assholes and wise asses too, then you have the cool nice cops who come and help you fix a flat tire in the rain.

The media loves us to be divided, said that before, that's why the report on the white on black crime, white cop shoots a black guy who was unarmed. The same happens in reverse, not sure what the occurrence really is, but let's say it's the same. Black on white crime, they put that on the local news, I've seen a lot of that over the years. So they plant the seed. White on white crime, hear some of that too, though not as often. White cop shoots a white guy, almost never hear of it, but it happens. There happens to be a video of a cop throwing around a teenager and tazing him until he goes into a coma. My guess is this kind of shit has been going on since the beginning of time. There's always someone being oppressed and mistreated, killed, beat, tortured.

Thankfully, despite the crazy shit that still happens, we live in a decent society where we can openly discuss these things and hopefully by doing so we're contributing to the effort to make things better in the future.

Anyway, pretty late for me so hopefully I didn't sound like too much of a jackass.

[Emiliano]

We should be judging based on character. However when it comes to if someone might pull out a gun and start shooting people you have to go by what you can observe.

I think society in this country has gone down the shitter, that or I'm just realizing just how it is.

I judge people on their character. If I'm standing in line at Burger King (I don't eat at Burger King ever) if someone is making me nervous or concerned, it is based on their appearance, body language...maybe they're being a douchebag to the cashier or something along those lines.

I think there is a big problem with law enforcement being way too trigger happy. Just in general there are so many cases where violence in general could have been prevented. There is definitely a racial issue with law enforcement, the question is why does it exist in the first place? I don't think the cops are all racist, yeah I'm sure there's a few bigots in the bunch, a pretty good number of all around assholes and wise asses too, then you have the cool nice cops who come and help you fix a flat tire in the rain.

The media loves us to be divided, said that before, that's why the report on the white on black crime, white cop shoots a black guy who was unarmed. The same happens in reverse, not sure what the occurrence really is, but let's say it's the same. Black on white crime, they put that on the local news, I've seen a lot of that over the years. So they plant the seed. White on white crime, hear some of that too, though not as often. White cop shoots a white guy, almost never hear of it, but it happens. There happens to be a video of a cop throwing around a teenager and tazing him until he goes into a coma. My guess is this kind of shit has been going on since the beginning of time. There's always someone being oppressed and mistreated, killed, beat, tortured.

Thankfully, despite the crazy shit that still happens, we live in a decent society where we can openly discuss these things and hopefully by doing so we're contributing to the effort to make things better in the future.

Anyway, pretty late for me so hopefully I didn't sound like too much of a jackass.

No you don't come off like a jackass. And I agree with you, people shouldn't let race influence how they treat each other. People also shouldn't walk into public places and shoot them up.

[InbetweenDreams]

No you don't come off like a jackass. And I agree with you, people shouldn't let race influence how they treat each other. People also shouldn't walk into public places and shoot them up.

Unfortunately not all of those in law enforcement look at it things the way it ought to be looked at. Probably for a lot of reasons, they might be a bigoted turd, trigger happy, poor judgement, or maybe deal with a lot of crimes or deal in neighborhoods that have high crime rates. None of it is a good excuse to allow it to continue but the problem is going to be a very long and difficult to fix.