Abortion

[InbetweenDreams]

[MENTION=23954]Gemini[/MENTION] There are sick people in this world, plain and simple. You do raise good points.

No condemning abortion. I think the laws that most states have in place are sufficient. However, it doesn't fix stupid. Doesn't the problems you mentioned go away. You could allow abortions after birth. It just becomes death in the end no matter what. That's the thing. Those scumbags you mention there aren't going to change, they'll continue fucking without a condom, denying it's their kid, chuck the baby in the dumpster when it cries at 3 AM. That stuff won't change. How do you go about fixing the people who are uneducated, or morally ill?

It would make more sense to sterilize these sorts of people, but how do you go about making that legal...sounds a little bit totalitarian to me. It is hard to see the good in humanity when you see, hear or witness things like that. Humanity has a lot of dark shit, sometimes overshadowing the good.

[InbetweenDreams]

Thank fuck I live in the UK.

I love US people but their country is governed very strangely lol.

Elaborate.

I think our government can be quite dysfunctional and has some preposterous processes that need to be changed (the presidential primaries for instance).

[Gemini]

[MENTION=23180]axle2152[/MENTION] - you're right, of course. Abortion isn't an answer. It's an unfortunately necessary resource. I just get so frustrated when I hear some people talking about responsible choices and using protection and stuff. Like everyone actually HAS choices.

There's evil and there's stupidity, but ignorance is the real enemy. If politicians took a quarter of the money they use to fight abortion and spent it to actually educate people, maybe abortion would become less necessary.

[artyboy]

Elaborate.

I think our government can be quite dysfunctional and has some preposterous processes that need to be changed (the presidential primaries for instance).

Totally what you said fella.

Was about to say something about your law system, but that's not the same as government (or is it?). Plus the UKs is probably a little better but not by much lol.

[artyboy]

[MENTION=23180]axle2152[/MENTION] - you're right, of course. Abortion isn't an answer. It's an unfortunately necessary resource. I just get so frustrated when I hear some people talking about responsible choices and using protection and stuff. Like everyone actually HAS choices.

There's evil and there's stupidity, but ignorance is the real enemy. If politicians took a quarter of the money they use to fight abortion and spent it to actually educate people, maybe abortion would become less necessary.

Education isn't the total asker to stop abortions sadly, sometimes it's necessary to save a life. Or to prevent a unwanted baby to abused women etc.

You might not like it (who does?) but it's a necessary thing to do sometimes.

[InbetweenDreams]

[MENTION=23180]axle2152[/MENTION] - you're right, of course. Abortion isn't an answer. It's an unfortunately necessary resource. I just get so frustrated when I hear some people talking about responsible choices and using protection and stuff. Like everyone actually HAS choices.

There's evil and there's stupidity, but ignorance is the real enemy. If politicians took a quarter of the money they use to fight abortion and spent it to actually educate people, maybe abortion would become less necessary.

Ironically the religious institution who wants everyone to abstain from sex doesn't advocate the use of contraceptives or sex education...So we have people who don't know that you put your hoo hoo dilly their their cha cha, to quote Cartman.

Most people do have the ability make a choice, some don't. Some women get raped, some women wanted a baby until they had to get up at 3 am to change a diaper, or feed and look after.

You know on the Atlanta news back in the summer a guy purposefully left his 3 year old son in a car to die. Thought he could make it look like an accident.... I'm just at a loss how someone could be sane and then be driven to do something like that. The thing is, they aren't sane. I also hate that people can use insanity as a means to get out of serving time, the fact that someone can be capable of such acts proves that they're insane...

[East]

People tend to intellectualize abortion, the morals, the ethics. There are a hell of a lot of women out there who fall through the cracks. Poor, uneducated, hampered maybe by language, addiction, exploitation. Always by fear. And a lot of macho-men who think that being a Baby-Daddy is a mark of sexual prowess and strength. Shit, you see them all the time on those idiot TV talk shows, bragging it up. The fuck-and-then-duck brigade. Loud shouts of, that aint my kid!

So yeah, no abortion. Don't kill the baby. And it's born. Momma don't want it because it ties her down. Daddy got a new bunch of dumb sluts to fuck. So the kids neglected. Abused. Way too often, killed.

I'm not being dramatic, I work on the fucking streets of this fucking city every day. What have I seen? Babies shaken, punched, burned, thrown against walls. Bodies of babies in dumpsters. This isn't some empty rhetoric, I HAVE SEEN ALL OF THOSE THINGS.

You want to tell a woman she can't have an abortion? Quibble about 3 vs. 6 months? Then YOU step up and make sure these women get prenatal care. Parenting classes., Sufficient income to raise the child. Protect the mom and the child from all those fucking Baby-Daddy's who don't wear condoms because it "don't feel right, man" and because they want to rack up their baby scores.

I don't have answers. I'm just so sick of hearing people condemning abortion. So it's better to have the kid and then let it die a violent death? I'm so, so sick. Every time we roll on a call that's "unresponsive infant" or any number of horrible things involving kids, I get sicker.

Do I advocate for abortion? Fuck, no. So someone, please, find an answer. And stop making it sound like every woman who has an abortion actually has viable choices.

Christ, I'm rambling on like Trump on steroids. Sorry. But it just all feels so fucking hopeless sometimes.

I had this kind of childhood....my mom tried to kill me many times between the age of 3 and 9....the last time was in 3rd grade and she almost got caught but by that time I knew I was dancing with the devil so before she was arrested I had to run interference because I knew if they left me alone with her after that I would be dead.....I was the evidence....

When you are in the situation...you learn to survive. My mom had something else inside of her..behind her eyes..I saw it alot and I knew I had to pretend I didn't see it so there was no way I could tell anyone.....

The bright side...if you make it out alive...you kinda "get it" when you see someone like Trump come along....because it is easy for me to recognize a monster....

[NativeSon]

This wouldn't even be an issue if the male of the species were the one to carry.

[LJay]

[MENTION=23556]knickerbuck[/MENTION], our last post is incomprehensible to me.

RE: Abortion

I refuse to get into the mire of when it may be carried out. I do know that I feel it should be legal and safely handled. Back when I was a youth counselor. A girl who was in one of the groups I worked with got pregnant. It was traumatic to say the least. Abortions were not readily available locally and she had not told her mother. It was a real mess. After much angst and not a few anxious consultations with a very wise priest with some serious connections to lobbyists for Planned Parenthood or whatever it was called at the time, I finally got her to agree to tell her mother. Mother turned out to be very supportive--really quite wonderful and all was resolved safely lin a clinic just out of state.

At that time there was the very real specter of an illegal abortion.

While I do not support government intervention concerning when or why, if a person decides to do it there is no doubt at all that a safe medical environment is necessary. I should also make it clear that I am not saying that this should be a barrier in the way that has been applied by some localities with regard to "hospital" standards.

[NativeSon]

^ Say what?

How dare you.