Tragedy and Tourism

[Emiliano]

This is something that I've thought about for a long time, how disasters can draw tourists to that site. In some ways I understand that people want to pay their respects, or that for historic reasons certain events and places should be memorialized and preserved. And I also think a lot has to do with morbid curiousity, which I have too. But what bothers me is when, for whatever reason, people are emotionally distanced enough from the actual tragedy that even though it's fresh enough in their minds to still draw them there, their behavior doesn't reflect the severity of the site.

For example, I remember after 9/11 when it started becoming a big thing for tourists to NYC to go down to lower Manhattan and see the destruction. When they finally built the official memorial, it started coming out that people were taking goofy selfies in front of the fountains, or running around and playing like it was a typical park. Then when the 9/11 Museum opened a couple years ago, there were more instances of what I'd consider inappropriate behavior - loud talking, giggling, posing for pictures in front of some of the objects, the missing person posters, or the wall behind which is basically a mass grave for the unidentified remains.

Just recently I saw an article about how Pulse Night Club has been becoming a site for tourists as well. Last night I saw a website that was sharing images of how an artist has been trying to shame the casual, playful, touristy behavior that's been going on at Berlin's Memorial for the Murdered Jews of Europe by superimposing the tourists' selfies on images of the Holocaust. (The images are disturbing, obviously)

http://www.boredpanda.com/holocaust-memo...k-shapira/

That also reminded me of the woman who was taking smiling selfies at Auschwitz.

Again, it doesn't bother me that people are drawn to these places. But If you're drawn there because it marks some major tragedy, why wouldn't your behavior while there reflect that? How much time has to pass before it's acceptable to not act in a respectful, solemn way?

So I'm curious if any of you have thoughts on these things.

Have you ever been to a disaster tourist site like a concentration camp, the WTC memorial, battlefield, site of a shooting, murder, natural disaster?
Would you want to go to one?
How do you think people should behave? Should there be rules?
Is there a time limit on keeping certain spots sacred and demanding visitors behave a certain way?

Or does it make you happy to see happy people at sad sites... maybe it's not disrespectful, maybe it's just life moving on, as it should?

[InbetweenDreams]

It is disrespectful and is a shame...but I don't think we should impose a bunch of rules (unless it's a law then in that case they can spend some time downtown).

I think what we're seeing are more people who were too young to remember 9/11 or just weren't around and has become, apparently, so customary to take selfies and act like a dumbass.

I've never been to the WTC memorial or museum or anything of the sort that you mentioned. Wouldn't mind visiting them and know some peeps who would be very interested in things of historical significance. I don't think WTC would be my first choice however, but that's a personal preference.

[Emiliano]

It is disrespectful and is a shame...but I don't think we should impose a bunch of rules (unless it's a law then in that case they can spend some time downtown).

I think what we're seeing are more people who were too young to remember 9/11 or just weren't around and has become, apparently, so customary to take selfies and act like a dumbass.

I've never been to the WTC memorial or museum or anything of the sort that you mentioned. Wouldn't mind visiting them and know some peeps who would be very interested in things of historical significance. I don't think WTC would be my first choice however, but that's a personal preference.

I agree with you about the 9/11 Museum, and the Holocaust memorial in Berlin too, it's mostly young people who don't have the memory, or people who don't have a direct connection. I have been to the museum (to see what their education staff does and how they handle tours on such a depressing topic) but I almost immediately regretted it and couldn't even make it through half of their main exhibit before I left. I would think that museum will better serve the younger and future generations once they grow up. I certainly wouldn't recommend it for people who remember 9/11 at all.

I'm a history buff though, so I can relate with the desire of wanting to see these places, as well as the move to preserve them at set them aside as special places. There are places like that I'd want to see if I ever get the chance.

What you say about customary selfies is interesting too. I wasnt thinking about that and how performative it really is.

[Emiliano]

And I'll say I also don't agree with making a law -there are none that regulate behavior as far as I know either. It would be nice if people were more self regulatory. Maybe they think their behavior is appropriate though.

[Cridders88]

Those people at the Berlin memorial clearly aren't thinking about what the memorial actually is. What they are probably seeing is a cool collection of blocks which would look really good in a photo. Hunting for likes, which looking at the photos, they clearly got what they wanted. I certainly would've thought if they saw the photoshopped images, they would recoil in horror.

I have been to Berlin and seen this memorial on a college trip about 12 years ago. It was a very sobering experience. Even though I don't have a direct connection to what the memorial represents, it affected me, because I THOUGHT about what it was, and respected it. These people aren't thinking, and are therefore being disrespectful.

[SilverBullet]

I agree, people often lack courtesy/decency.

I also agree that making laws would be the wrong thing to do, nearly anything you could make towards peoples personality would conflict the bill of rights.

Would be nice to have some smiting power though give them a personal rainstorm for a few hours/days lol.

Its similar to people that burn flags, that is a symbol of the country and the men and women that allowed it to exist. Most of us have ancestors that died for it and its something that should be respected. Upset with the current branches of government? dont burn the flag, print posters of who and what your upset about. Bring them into a spotlight, burning a flag teaches no one. Memorials are also symbols, usually monuments built to people who were killed or of an important event.

Just as when people pull over for a line of cars lead by a hearse show respect for the dead, pull over and act like someone with moral fortitude even if you have none.

People that can go to to say the 9/11 or pearl harbor memorial and act like little punks or what have you, its pretty sad and its a reflection of not only of their intelligence, their heart and maturity but their parents as well.

However even for like a flag, burning it should be allowed. The soldiers that died for it also died for the bill of rights. Although its a bitter pill if someone wants to be an ass at a mass burial/graveyard, a monument or wherever, I guess we have the right to be stupid and thats one of the greatest things about the country. Just look away from them I guess.

[Emiliano]

Those people at the Berlin memorial clearly aren't thinking about what the memorial actually is. What they are probably seeing is a cool collection of blocks which would look really good in a photo. Hunting for likes, which looking at the photos, they clearly got what they wanted. I certainly would've thought if they saw the photoshopped images, they would recoil in horror.

I have been to Berlin and seen this memorial on a college trip about 12 years ago. It was a very sobering experience. Even though I don't have a direct connection to what the memorial represents, it affected me, because I THOUGHT about what it was, and respected it. These people aren't thinking, and are therefore being disrespectful.

I had a friend tell me that museum was the most powerful museum experience he's had. That the architecture underground reflects the above ground and certain exhibit displays were on the floor so you had to bend or kneel to read it. I think how museums use their physical space and the atmosphere it creates is fascinating, so I'd be curious to go there to experience that.

Did your professors or classmates have any discussions about the memorial when you were on the trip? Did you have to go as part of a class, or did you go alone? And do think for what it is, was it a valuable part of the trip?

[Emiliano]

I agree, people often lack courtesy/decency.

I also agree that making laws would be the wrong thing to do, nearly anything you could make towards peoples personality would conflict the bill of rights.

Would be nice to have some smiting power though give them a personal rainstorm for a few hours/days lol.

Its similar to people that burn flags, that is a symbol of the country and the men and women that allowed it to exist. Most of us have ancestors that died for it and its something that should be respected. Upset with the current branches of government? dont burn the flag, print posters of who and what your upset about. Bring them into a spotlight, burning a flag teaches no one. Memorials are also symbols, usually monuments built to people who were killed or of an important event.

Just as when people pull over for a line of cars lead by a hearse show respect for the dead, pull over and act like someone with moral fortitude even if you have none.

People that can go to to say the 9/11 or pearl harbor memorial and act like little punks or what have you, its pretty sad and its a reflection of not only of their intelligence, their heart and maturity but their parents as well.

However even for like a flag, burning it should be allowed. The soldiers that died for it also died for the bill of rights. Although its a bitter pill if someone wants to be an ass at a mass burial/graveyard, a monument or wherever, I guess we have the right to be stupid and thats one of the greatest things about the country. Just look away from them I guess.

That's an interesting connection between memorials and flags. And how both are powerful in their symbolism and what's represented. You also have me thinking now about how museums in general, but disaster sites in particular, have been used to make political statements. And what kind of weight that carries to protest at an actual site, not just something symbolic of an event or people. Like could you imagine if neo-nazis staged a march at Auschwitz? Or if the 9/11 memorial were some how used in order to protest Guantanamo or something. That's a whole other level.

[Cridders88]

I had a friend tell me that museum was the most powerful museum experience he's had. That the architecture underground reflects the above ground and certain exhibit displays were on the floor so you had to bend or kneel to read it. I think how museums use their physical space and the atmosphere it creates is fascinating, so I'd be curious to go there to experience that.

Did your professors or classmates have any discussions about the memorial when you were on the trip? Did you have to go as part of a class, or did you go alone? And do think for what it is, was it a valuable part of the trip?

Unfortunately, we didn't actually go inside, I would've liked to experience that. Had it been a history trip, then we no doubt would have done, but it was Geography AS level, and the trip was more focussed on the infrastructure of the city itself and the human geography aspect. We were a group of about 20 aswell, luckily, we had no-one with any ideas to do anything like what the pictures in that link show.

I do remember however, going into the Checkpoint Charlie museum. I do remember in there, that a few of my classmates seemed relatively disinterested. Myself, I remember being fascinated by the illustrations and the objects within the museum. Sadly, as it was so long ago, I don't remember things in great detail, but I do remember it being a valuable part of the trip for me personally.

[Emiliano]

Had it been a history trip, then we no doubt would have done, but it was Geography AS level, and the trip was more focussed on the infrastructure of the city itself and the human geography aspect.

That sounds like the best class in the world.