Why Can't People Just Tell The Truth?

[Matt608]

[MENTION=20947]MikeW[/MENTION] [MENTION=22821]NativeSon[/MENTION] [MENTION=24308]Piri[/MENTION]
It appears that my thoroughly despicable ex, who originally inspired this thread, has not only created chaos and havoc in my life, his own life, and the life of the bewildered teenager he seduced, but he's managed to cast his evil spell and put you guys at odds as well.

Lol I'd be happy to post his email address, and then you can all direct your aggravation at him rather than at each other - he deserves it a lot more than any of you guys do!

[Cuddly]

I hate his immaturity, he said he was "feeling old" and he was flattered by the attention from a 19 year old. I'm 25 for fucksake, does that put me "over the hill"?

This part is what gets me the most. Like what the fuck?!

Don't ever blame yourself for this. You were never in the wrong and under no circumstances at fault here. Think of it this way, atleast you got rid of the tool now and saved yourself of what could be another decade of lies and deceit!

[Piri]

So its your opinion that 18yo virgins are born subs?

Born? Probably not. But surely it's something you develop since you're very little: I talked with many subs/doms and it appears they have those fantasies since they can remember. I'm also a bit into D/s and yeah, I had this kink since I was a kid, and I couldn't possibly watch porn when I was 8 years old with no internet, much less bdsm porn. It's fine if you know nothing about kinks because you're not into that stuff, but spewing bullshit about it, just because you're frustrated that those young lads want to do something you find "disturbing" instead of doing what you like, is silly. Sexuality is not a switch that can be flipped with a porn video.

[MikeW]

Born? Probably not. But surely it's something you develop since you're very little: I talked with many subs/doms and it appears they have those fantasies since they can remember. I'm also a bit into D/s and yeah, I had this kink since I was a kid, and I couldn't possibly watch porn when I was 8 years old with no internet, much less bdsm porn. It's fine if you know nothing about kinks because you're not into that stuff, but spewing bullshit about it, just because you're frustrated that those young lads want to do something you find "disturbing" instead of doing what you like, is silly. Sexuality is not a switch that can be flipped with a porn video.

So, your first sexual experiences were dom/sub? Your first sexual experiences, you hooked up with a total stranger and asked him to insult you, degrade you, humiliate you, restrain you, abuse you physically, and assault you sexually with rough sex?

You do understand, I am not talking about DOM/sub relationships that are based on trust, mutual understanding, and love, right? I'm talking about 'kids' -- many of whom, upon further questioning, admit to being total virgins -- approaching a complete stranger on an app and asking to be verbally humiliated, restrained, physically abused and sexually assaulted.

Indeed, sexuality is not a switch that can be flipped with a porn video, but to suggest that pornography watched repeatedly has no effect on our desires or our sense of what is "erotic" or "hot" is highly debatable.

Edit to add: I would appreciate it if you owned that you took personal offense at the statement you originally quoted -- which was not directed at you or any other DOM/sub relationship (about which I confessed to knowing little in that very quote) and have increasingly degraded into insults of my intelligence and intentions. If you want to educate me about DOM/sub culture and relationships, that's fine. I'm quite open to hearing what you have to say. But, as I said either in this thread or others, I've been around a long time. There has always been a DOM/sub culture within the gay culture. That's not anything new. But that's NOT what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the very high percentage of very young guys using apps like Grindr in search of that kind of roleplaying with complete strangers. THAT is what I find disturbing.

[MikeW]

[MENTION=20947]MikeW[/MENTION] [MENTION=22821]NativeSon[/MENTION] [MENTION=24308]Piri[/MENTION]
It appears that my thoroughly despicable ex, who originally inspired this thread, has not only created chaos and havoc in my life, his own life, and the life of the bewildered teenager he seduced, but he's managed to cast his evil spell and put you guys at odds as well.

Lol I'd be happy to post his email address, and then you can all direct your aggravation at him rather than at each other - he deserves it a lot more than any of you guys do!

This is really more my fault for having taken your thread off topic. So, to you personally, I apologize.

As for the 'ire' my posts have stirred up, this is an open forum where people are free to express their opinions. We needn't agree and often don't. Each of us come here with our own personal dispositions and histories that have shaped our understanding of self and world. So long as we treat one another with some respect, perhaps we can benefit from these exchanges.

It is at the point where they degrade into implicit or explicit personal insults that it becomes problematic. But even then, people are people. We all have feelings and these feelings often get triggered by what other people say or are perceived to have said. Ideally, we own these feelings and take responsibility for them rather than blaming 'the other' for having 'caused' them.

A lot can be learned about ourselves if we take a more objective approach to our own emotionality. But, being human, that's very rare. Unlike thoughts, emotions are highly immersive. They are practically indistinguishable from their physiological effects such as rushes of adrenaline that cause increases in blood pressure and a more rapid heart rate -- generally, signals of a fear based fight/flight reaction. IOW, a defense mechanism.

It can be very interesting to ask oneself, "Where is this defensive reaction coming from?" The answer(s) usually do not come from direct mental questioning, but from gentle probing, self-awareness, and self-acceptance.

[princealbertofb]

I don't want to take this thread off topic... but I do want to ask do you really feel that someone is a "pervert" if they have consensual intergenerational sex? If so, then I'm a pervert. The last guy I was with is 19 years old and I am 69. He pursued me on Grindr... I had no problem with it. He was a really nice guy, very cute, sexy, and knew exactly what he wanted. He's versatile but predominantly a top. I have no problem with that... I'll say this, for as young as he is, he knew exactly what he was doing and was quite good at it. .... NO... there was no finical exchange here.

When he first showed up at my door I asked, "What is it, you have some sort of GRANDPA kink or something? You do realize I was 50yo when you were born, right?" His answer was a grin and a smile, "No, not really, I just like older men." I grimaced a bit. "There's older and then there's "ancient"... I'm more in the later category." He laughed at that. "Well, that many be," he said, "but you're a fucking hot grandpa... so lets get to it!"

So... am I a pervert?

Obviously I do not think so. It was fun. And I wouldn't be surprised if I saw him again. As to what we have in common? Probably not much... but so what? We're not dating. LOL!!

The thing is, [MENTION=20947]MikeW[/MENTION], your relationship with this 19-year old or whatever you want to call it, was honest at least, so how could it a perversion?

[Piri]

So, your first sexual experiences were dom/sub? Your first sexual experiences, you hooked up with a total stranger and asked him to insult you, degrade you, humiliate you, restrain you, abuse you physically, and assault you sexually with rough sex?

You do understand, I am not talking about DOM/sub relationships that are based on trust, mutual understanding, and love, right? I'm talking about 'kids' -- many of whom, upon further questioning, admit to being total virgins -- approaching a complete stranger on an app and asking to be verbally humiliated, restrained, physically abused and sexually assaulted.

Indeed, sexuality is not a switch that can be flipped with a porn video, but to suggest that pornography watched repeatedly has no effect on our desires or our sense of what is "erotic" or "hot" is highly debatable.

Edit to add: I would appreciate it if you owned that you took personal offense at the statement you originally quoted -- which was not directed at you or any other DOM/sub relationship (about which I confessed to knowing little in that very quote) and have increasingly degraded into insults of my intelligence and intentions. If you want to educate me about DOM/sub culture and relationships, that's fine. I'm quite open to hearing what you have to say. But, as I said either in this thread or others, I've been around a long time. There has always been a DOM/sub culture within the gay culture. That's not anything new. But that's NOT what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the very high percentage of very young guys using apps like Grindr in search of that kind of roleplaying with complete strangers. THAT is what I find disturbing.

I did get kind of annoyed, not by the first post I quoted but the one where you used the "rolleyes" emoji, it very much looked like you were making fun of me and treating me like a fool. But my intention was to voice my opinion and have a constructive talk, not to insult each other, so hopefully we can forget this ever happened.

My first experience was not with a dom. I had sub fantasies since I can remember, but at one point (17 y.o.) I witnessed two guys affectionately holding hands for the first time: that sight warmed my heart and I realised that I *also* wanted cuddling, love etc. I don't think this event changed my sexuality: it didn't override my lust for submission; it merely helped me discover a hidden part of my sexuality that was hidden deep inside of me. I just couldn't conceive love between two guys because all I knew about homosexuality were the stupid stereotypes I saw on TV, the silly impressions my friends made to mock gay couples, the nasty religious crap. Anyway I started dating guys my age, having vanilla relationships and sex, which I liked for the most part, but before I even tried (and it took me a long time) I knew I would enjoy it. But...I still felt like something was missing and I knew what it was. Last year (I was almost 25) I couldn't take it anymore and I tried my first D/s experience, which only confirmed what I knew since I was a child: I fucking love being dominated. Did I really need to try love-making first? Does it matter that he was a stranger? I think not, just like I didn't need to try girls first and it didn't matter that my first boyfriend was a stranger: I *knew* I was gay long before my first kiss, and I knew I was into bdsm long before I gave it a shot. My life, reading books, talking with people of different sexual orientations, gender identities and "interests" taught me (and I'm open to the possibility that the lesson might be wrong) that sexuality develops in the early stages of life and cannot be changed. You can force yourself to do something you don't want to do, you can fool yourself into thinking you like something you don't enjoy at all, you can discover hidden aspects of your sexuality later in life, but you don't just turn your back on your real romantic and sexual instincts. And you don't really need to try things out when you know exactly what your mind and body crave for. I believe most of those guys you mentioned actually know well enough what they want, and the partner being a complete stranger, the lack of respect/mutual love, mean nothing: they just get off to a daddy having control over them and that's all they need. One could argue that having a stranger tying you up is potentially very dangerous, but so is any other form of sex, you can never be sure about someone you meet on dating apps (not that you can trust people you meet in real life), so I don't understand what's so disturbing about the high percentage of guys looking for bdsm. The way I see it, the increasing number of guys openly looking for unconventional sex is only the result of this kind of practice slowly becoming more socially acceptable, and people being more aware of their interests thanks to the big source of information that is the internet.

As for porn videos influencing one's sexuality: they might help you understand what you like/dislike, they might confuse a weak mind, but that's about all they can do when you already have a defined sexuality. Imo.

[Pyromancer]

I can definitely relate to your question about why people don't tell the truth...lying about things that have a major impact on your life and other people's lives makes no sense at all. Usually, the truth comes out and things become much worse than they would have been if the person had just been honest.

After too long a time with a man whose whole life turned out to be essentially a lie, I'm hypersensitive. Lie to me once and you're history. Lie once and I'll never be able to believe anything else you tell me.

I've been told that I'm judgmental, that I'm judging everyone by him, that I set impossible standards...IDK...I can't get past it.

I would rather hear the truth...even if it angers me, even if it hurts me, even if it means an ending.

[LJay]

[MENTION=22821]NativeSon[/MENTION], how old are you?

[NativeSon]

Wow. Well, fuck you too. I think you got that wrong, what I've complained about was NOT feeling more sexually stimulated by men more "age appropriate." Specifically, I've said, "If I did, I'd be having a lot more fun." ... NOW I discover (after all these years) that isn't necessarily true.

How dare you, grandma.

That's not what I said.

Werk.