Taking My Own Path

[marshlander]

Okay, anxiety and meds ... that's a whole different game that places a different point of view on your concerns. I apologise if I have been too flippant in my responses so far.

I find your final paragraph specially interesting. I also find that asking the right questions helps. For me there is no "why" (beyond the Darwinian notion of propagating the species I suppose) concerning our presence here. That implies intention and can only really be answered by philosophers, most (if not all) of whom will be wrong. Once I can accept that I also have an answer that meets my requirements to all your other questions. It's not that I lack curiosity. I do like to see what's round the next bend. Death will be an adventure, but I suspect I'll have to make the most of it the first and final time I experience it. I hope it isn't too painful. I also suspect that death has a far more devastating effect on those left behind, which is presumably why we are so fond of narratives to explain it and turn it into something of greater significance than simply a cessation of conscious life. I find great comfort in the knowledge that I'll end up as compost and maybe feed into the growth of something beautiful and magnificent.

[InbetweenDreams]

Okay, anxiety and meds ... that's a whole different game that places a different point of view on your concerns. I apologise if I have been too flippant in my responses so far.

I find your final paragraph specially interesting. I also find that asking the right questions helps. For me there is no "why" (beyond the Darwinian notion of propagating the species I suppose) concerning our presence here. That implies intention and can only really be answered by philosophers, most (if not all) of whom will be wrong. Once I can accept that I also have an answer that meets my requirements to all your other questions. It's not that I lack curiosity. I do like to see what's round the next bend. Death will be an adventure, but I suspect I'll have to make the most of it the first and final time I experience it. I hope it isn't too painful. I also suspect that death has a far more devastating effect on those left behind, which is presumably why we are so fond of narratives to explain it and turn it into something of greater significance than simply a cessation of conscious life. I find great comfort in the knowledge that I'll end up as compost and maybe feed into the growth of something beautiful and magnificent.

It not a big deal. The subject of death shouldn't bother me quite so much, but it apparently does for some people. It is also hard to frame the words in the right way to get the essence of my thoughts and feelings about the subject. In one way because I didn't grow up in a Christian family, go to church or have positive experiences in participating in such activities. When my mom and sister got into Wicca I got the feeling that they were "coloring" it in and making seem more "fake" just as I see how fake some Christians or even Pagans. 

On Facebook I joined a few Pagan groups mostly just to ask questions and see if I could get nugged in the right direction. One thing is common in nearly everything, there's people who, from my perspective, are nuts. Just as Christians are so sure that God protected them from the tornadoes that came through Sunday night (this literally did just happen) that a Pagan (presumably) thinks that the wax drippings from a candle burning could possibly mean anything. I see spell casting and prayer to be the same thing, perhaps I'm wrong and am missing something.

Getting back on point on the subject of death. Like in my last post, perhaps clues about what happens to "us" in death are in birth. I can't pinpoint the day I became conscious, I can almost remember the day my inner "voice" emerged. You know how you can "hear" your thoughts word by word. Some people actually do not have that. So for instance when I read I hear what I read in my head, other people do not, it is a different experience for them entirely and they simply can't do it either. Doesn't mean they're crazy psychopath or anything like that. 

One thing that does apparent from that is that consciousness takes many forms. I do believe that my cat, for example, is conscious. In the same way that I am, no, not exactly. He does not exhibit self-awareness (not sure that's the right word for it), if I put a mirror in front of him he thinks its another cat. Dolphins on the other hand do. But to expand on the question, what quantifies consciousness? Are tree conscious? Bugs? The air? The Universe? 

Hopefully I'm making some sense in all of this. I have a tendency to ramble on.

[TwisttheLeaf]

Yeah the mainstream view of...anything is watered down. Supposedly some of the rituals in Wicca are close to being a carbon copy of some Masonic rituals? I don't know if that's true or not. I've been listening to some podcasts from Bernard Alvarez, some of his shows are really good and speak to me, some of it I feel a bit skeptical about. 

On the subject of death and reincarnation. What do you think happens to consciousness following death? I've read several theories that sort of hint what happens. That we're part of a collective consciousness, I think -- If I can recall. It was something to that effect.

I think that is the difference (for me) between dying and being reincarnated.... or dying and ascending.  

When we die, I believe that we (as the spirit that inhabits our physical body) is set free and we have the choice to linger in the liminal plane (ie: ghosts and other types of spirits that look over others, etc) or move on and be reincarnated.   I believe that these cycles of reincarnation are a learning process for our spirit, a learning process we are not fully cognizant of on the physical plane.   Through these lifetimes and experiences our spirit goes through, we become more learned and more advanced along our path towards the collective consciousness that you mention.... and once our spirit has learned all that it needs to, it then "ascends" to be fully absorbed into that collective consciousness.

In other words I believe that all beings and spirits on the planet are in different stages of infancy and growth towards something greater.

[InbetweenDreams]

@"juanrossi" ??? Not trying to be an ass but what does a list of hook-up apps have to do with what's being discussed here? Kind of smells of spam.

@twisttheleaf I have had some thoughts similar to that. Of course if we're not aware of all our previous experiences (assuming space time applies) that would make sense. A collective consciousness does make sense. Just as I feel that divinity is in everything also makes sense. Of course comes the question is why?

What religion or spiritual path do you practice? If you don't mind sharing and perhaps jump down the rabbit hole.

[TwisttheLeaf]

@"juanrossi" ??? Not trying to be an ass but what does a list of hook-up apps have to do with what's being discussed here? Kind of smells of spam.

@twisttheleaf I have had some thoughts similar to that. Of course if we're not aware of all our previous experiences (assuming space time applies) that would make sense. A collective consciousness does make sense. Just as I feel that divinity is in everything also makes sense. Of course comes the question is why?

What religion or spiritual path do you practice? If you don't mind sharing and perhaps jump down the rabbit hole.

I'm not part of an organized religion.   I was raised in a Wiccan and Buddhist household, and began finding my own path once moving from their home.    I usually describe my path as a non-theistic Pagan with Buddhist influences and a practicing witch.

This essentially (and very pared down) means that my faith reveres the earth, the elements (earth, air, fire, water), and the natural energies of creation, evolution, and balance. I can go into more detail but that is the basic foundation.

[James]

After my own NDE, I've not changed my mind on this. Granted, I did not see let a glowing bright light to follow or dead relatives or anyone there to greet me. I just felt a very comforting. Hi Twistedleaf, let my learning also talk with marsh, inbetweendreams and others. What is proven, energy can not be created or destroyed, it just is. We are made up of lots of different components, but the common core is energy. So do we believe in religion or science? Wait, they both have a common conclusion, hope this helps, the old one, Jim

[kindy64]

Background: Lutheran with Buddhist influences.

We don't know as much about the universe as we think we do.

For instance, what is the soul? Where does it reside? Are we mere animals with a few extra features thanks to our brain size?

My twisted thoughts on this, which I don't believe are contradictory to religious belief, is that our soul is the "earthly" manifestation of an intelligent being (or beings) in a higher dimension of reality. When our corporeal body dies, our soul moves back into the higher dimension of reality.

[InbetweenDreams]

Background: Lutheran with Buddhist influences.

We don't know as much about the universe as we think we do.

No, we sure don't. I mean we don't really know how gravity works other than the obvious and that it effects time when there is an abundance of it. We know very little than what our 5 senses can tell us. I mean, can you imagine a color that you haven't observed yourself? Another way to think is trying to describe color to a blind person. Same way to think about how there might be other dimensions, it becomes more difficult to visualize when there isn't any reference to it (Although, there are people who can't visualize things and those who do not have an internal monologue).

For instance, what is the soul? Where does it reside? Are we mere animals with a few extra features thanks to our brain size?

I have heard that the pineal gland is the "seat of the soul" and it is an odd part of the brain, mainly that it has retinal tissue (rods and cones) that are in the eye...Makes you wonder why that is. I don't really know what the soul is other than its ties with consciousness. Makes you wonder about the many answers and explanations there can be. I do think we are very much animals who happen to have a larger brain and the tools to allow us to expand our intelligence. Afterall, it wasn't much beyond 40,000 years ago that we weren't much different than many other wild animals. So I do think my cat for instance is a sentient being. Afterall he does meow when he's hungry and wants to play and definitely has a personality of his own and experiences emotions, pain and so on just as I do. He just speak, do taxes and cleans his own litter box. Is my cat on the same level as my? What about ants? Trees?

Someone on the Pagan forum said that I might be interested in pantheism and/or animism. I like some of the concepts of pantheism and animism but I haven't dug very deep into them. I need to find a book, or some resource, that comes from a neutral point of view. Seems most things are written from a Christian point of view....and since I never went to church, worshiped in that way, some of the methods they use to explain a lot of that stuff doesn't really click for me.

My twisted thoughts on this, which I don't believe are contradictory to religious belief, is that our soul is the "earthly" manifestation of an intelligent being (or beings) in a higher dimension of reality.  When our corporeal body dies, our soul moves back into the higher dimension of reality.

It seems that a number of Pagans do think we're part of a larger consciousness that also makes up the universe. Something like Bohm's implicate and explicate order...which is a weird one to get around when I looked into it after it being brought up in the book I read about Paganism (referenced at least once in this thread).

I do think we are getting closer understanding some of these things with science, but we are, I think, getting close to a ceiling. For instance, it is not likely we'll be able to travel to another galaxy in our lifetime.