Isn't it funny

[fredv3b]

Is that not called "straight acting"? Incidentally, that is a term I hate. My personal feelings on it are mostly around the interpretation of the "acting" part. Sure, it can be seen as an action, but acting also has the connotation of falsehood for play or performance. Since I consder my time in the closet as being a fraud, I hate the term. (That's the simiplistic explanation)

Sorry to continue your digression....

Whilst I don't share your hate of the term 'straight acting', I do understand your unease. 'Straight' behaving (inverted commas to be intoned) might be a more accurate term, but straight acting is the one that evolution of the English language has given us. We all know what it actually means.

I presume you mean that you consider your time in the closet as a fraud against others, rather than against yourself? I don't consider myself to be dishonest or fraudulent to allow people, who have just assumed I am straight because I didn't mince into the room, to continue in their mistaken belief. To feign interest in the opposite sex would be dishonest, but I don't feel dishonest in not telling people my sexual orientation simply because they appear not to have kept an open mind as to what it might be. I admit I do feel a vague obligation not to allow them to continue in falsehood, in order to show them that we gays are actually pretty ordinary and all around them, etc., but it isn't (to me) a question of dishonesty or fraud if I don't bother.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts...

[colinmackay]

I presume you mean that you consider your time in the closet as a fraud against others, rather than against yourself?

From the point of acceptance to coming out was less than 6 months.

I hid from myself for 20 years - an amazing feat that ultimately caused a lot of stress which manifested itself in overeating. Since that's stopped I've lost about 18kg (39lbs) without really trying.

I feel that I defrauded myself, as well as everyone else.

I don't consider myself to be dishonest or fraudulent to allow people, who have just assumed I am straight because I didn't mince into the room, to continue in their mistaken belief. To feign interest in the opposite sex would be dishonest, but I don't feel dishonest in not telling people my sexual orientation simply because they appear not to have kept an open mind as to what it might be.

Before I accepted myself I did show interest in the opposite sex because that is was I felt was expected of me. I even had a girlfriend who became a fiancée (luckily marriage was averted due to the relationship breaking down for other reasons). Looking back in hindsight, it wasn't a relationship I was ever really interested in, she drove the entire thing. I just got to play the dutiful son. Although at the time I didn't see it that way. I honestly enjoyed the friendship (it was a very lonely period in my life) but that is where is should have stayed.

I should qualify that last paragraph. At the time I did believe I was doing the right thing that it was love (never having really experienced it). She had a very dominating personality so I was happy to let her have control over everything. In hindsight I see that I was just devolving responsibility on to her so I didn't really have to think about it.

Obviously, I don't feign any interest in women any more.

I admit I do feel a vague obligation not to allow them to continue in falsehood, in order to show them that we gays are actually pretty ordinary and all around them, etc., but it isn't (to me) a question of dishonesty or fraud if I don't bother.

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts...

The only place I'm not out is my work. And I have to admit that it is beginning to tear away at me. One person there does know (because we were friends from before) and I think a couple of others have probably worked it out anyway.

My company's client list includes a variety of lingerie companies and so the conversation in the office is quite often sexually charged as a result. That adds to my current discomfort.

Since I no longer feign an interest in women, whenever the conversation turns that way I just say something neutral like "doesn't do it for me" or "not my type".

[fredv3b]

Thanks for your reply. Its interesting to compare your experience with my own.

From the point of acceptance to coming out was less than 6 months.

That took me 15 years or so.

I hid from myself for 20 years - an amazing feat that ultimately caused a lot of stress which manifested itself in overeating. Since that's stopped I've lost about 18kg (39lbs) without really trying.

I feel that I defrauded myself, as well as everyone else.

I found the accepting the fact that I was gay to be relatively easy. I remember very clearly an instant of clarity where I realised all my confused feelings made sense if I was gay, I suddenly knew that I was gay, I was aged about 11 at the time.

Dealing with everything that followed on from the simple single fact that I was gay was a different kettle of fish entirely. I entered a strange form of denial, my denial was not of the fact that I was gay but that I had to deal with it, I managed a remarkable job of ignoring it. As I grew older I grew more aware of a whole side of life I was missing out on.

Although obviously I had to lie from time to time whilst I was in the closet, it was surprising how much of the time I could get by with neutral comments.

Before I accepted myself I did show interest in the opposite sex because that is was I felt was expected of me. I even had a girlfriend who became a fiancée (luckily marriage was averted due to the relationship breaking down for other reasons).

I'm glad for the both of you that the engagement was called off. For most of my time that I was in the closet, hard work was the most of what was expected of me. That I could do, it also helped my form of denial.

In hindsight I see that I was just devolving responsibility on to her so I didn't really have to think about it.

In contrast I avoided the need to take responsibility for that side of my life, I just left the whole thing sitting quietly on the shelf.

The only place I'm not out is my work. And I have to admit that it is beginning to tear away at me. One person there does know (because we were friends from before) and I think a couple of others have probably worked it out anyway.

I have to admit I am sort of partially in the closet at work. I don't work with the same particular set of people each day, so over the course of months I have large number of direct co-workers. I know a few who know because I mentioned my bf in conversation, a couple more seemed to have heard from them. But beyond that it doesn't seem to have been particularly gossiped. However due to the fact I don't spend a lot of time with any single person, I don't really care.

[colinmackay]

I found the accepting the fact that I was gay to be relatively easy. I remember very clearly an instant of clarity where I realised all my confused feelings made sense if I was gay, I suddenly knew that I was gay, I was aged about 11 at the time.

Dealing with everything that followed on from the simple single fact that I was gay was a different kettle of fish entirely. I entered a strange form of denial, my denial was not of the fact that I was gay but that I had to deal with it, I managed a remarkable job of ignoring it. As I grew older I grew more aware of a whole side of life I was missing out on.

I think if I had accepted earlier that I was gay I wouldn't have made so many mistakes. Even if I accepted it and then, like you, ignored it, I wouldn't have made so many mistakes.

While I was a teenager, I had contemplated it. I put those feelings down to being a "phase". I don't know what age that started, but looking back now, the clues were definetly there by the time I was 15.

Basically, as I was trying to work out whether the feelings were long term or not another kid in my class was outed. It wasn't nice. The one overwhelming thought was that I didn't ever want that to happen to me. So, the feelings got burried. I pushes them down as deep as possible. Evey homophobic comment I heard from then on got piled in burying the feelings deeper and deeper.

Although obviously I had to lie from time to time whilst I was in the closet, it was surprising how much of the time I could get by with neutral comments.

I've found that too at work. Every statement is true, just vague on gender references.

I'm glad for the both of you that the engagement was called off. For most of my time that I was in the closet, hard work was the most of what was expected of me. That I could do, it also helped my form of denial.

In contrast I avoided the need to take responsibility for that side of my life, I just left the whole thing sitting quietly on the shelf.

Interesting you should say that. The last few years, from the point of the engagement being called off and me accepting my sexuality, a time I call "the void" I just put my head down and worked hard and refused to look for relationships. I guess it just meant I didn't have to deal with anything. As you say, "[avoiding] the need to take responsibility for that side of my life"

Someone that I became friends with during this period recently commented that they thought I was just asexual and didn't realise I was struggling with my sexuality.

[fredv3b]

I think if I had accepted earlier that I was gay I wouldn't have made so many mistakes. Even if I accepted it and then, like you, ignored it, I wouldn't have made so many mistakes.

We all make mistakes all the time, if our lives had have been different we would have made others. Which would we have regretted the most?

Basically, as I was trying to work out whether the feelings were long term or not another kid in my class was outed. It wasn't nice. The one overwhelming thought was that I didn't ever want that to happen to me. So, the feelings got burried. I pushes them down as deep as possible. Evey homophobic comment I heard from then on got piled in burying the feelings deeper and deeper.

Mine was the sort of school, where nobody was out. Nobody who was sane would out themselves or allow themselves to be outed. The homophobia was far more implicit than it was explicit. Nobody ever got to see how bad it was, perhaps it wasn't actually as bad as I feared.

Someone that I became friends with during this period recently commented that they thought I was just asexual and didn't realise I was struggling with my sexuality.

I really understand where you are coming from there.

If you don't mind can I ask what changed, what finally tipped you over to accepting that you are gay?

I know why I finally accepted that being gay was something I had to deal with. I felt increasingly pathetic about my inability to deal with it, the shear weight on my shoulders from never having anyone to talk about it with and most of all I was lonely, although I had plenty of friends my work and their work was such that I could spend alot less time with them than in my student days and several of them were also getting into serious relationships. Finally at the age of 25 I decided I had to start dealing with it.

[colinmackay]

If you don't mind can I ask what changed, what finally tipped you over to accepting that you are gay?

March last year I was down in London for a conference. A friend invited me a long to the pub one evening while I was down there and brought a couple of his friends with him. One was very openly gay. He was just really open about his sexuality.

It was that openess that gave me the tools to start breaking down the mental barriers in my head.

Within a few months I accepted myself and at the end of September last year I came out to him.... after he dragged me down Canal St - Incidentally, I had already asked him earlier that evening if he could spare some time to talk to me in private, so I'd already made the decision to tell him before we went to the bars and club.

As it was his openess that helped me, I am now just more open about me. If that helps anyone else then I'll be really happy. Since coming out it feels as if a massive weight has been lifted off me.

Incidentally, I also wrote about this on my blog if you are interested: blog.colinmackay.net/archive/2010/01/23/Exploding-out-of-the-Closet.aspx

(I'm not yet allowed to post links so you'll have to copy and paste that into your address bar)

[colinmackay]

We all make mistakes all the time, if our lives had have been different we would have made others. Which would we have regretted the most?

Just to add... Sure, I realise I would have made a different set of mistakes. But I regard the supressing/hiding/burying of my sexuality to be my biggest mistake. Had I not made that, I wouldn't have made what I regard as my second biggest mistake (which I used to regard as my biggest mistake) and that was to get into such an awful relationship. (She was manipulative beyond imagination).

[fredv3b]

Thanks for the link. I try to be open about myself as well, but I am not very good at it, I naturally 'keep my cards close to my chest'. But I realise that it was the openness of friends that helped me realise how pathetic the state I was in was.

With regards to mistakes my point was, how do you know that you wouldn't have made an even bigger mistake had things worked out differently? A friend of my bf has been living with the consequences of a youthful mistake for nearly 20 years and will continue to do so for the rest of his life. I know that being trapped in the closet protected me from many youthful mistakes, who am I to say how big they would have been?

[colinmackay]

With regards to mistakes my point was, how do you know that you wouldn't have made an even bigger mistake had things worked out differently? A friend of my bf has been living with the consequences of a youthful mistake for nearly 20 years and will continue to do so for the rest of his life. I know that being trapped in the closet protected me from many youthful mistakes, who am I to say how big they would have been?

I feel I would rather have been open and honest with myself and made a different set of mistakes (potentially bigger mistakes) than live with the mistakes currently on my plate. At least then I could say, I screwed up, but at least I was honest with myself/the world.

[fredv3b]

Fair enough. I wish I had come out earlier because despite whatever mistakes I made along the way I would have had more fun , but then again perhaps I would not have been internet dating when I was, and so would never have met my bf who I love to bits. :confused: