Nature vs Nurture - Born gay or turned gay?

[Daniel6]

Gay is definitely unnatural. I cannot find a reasonable judgment for its existent. All species struggles to maintain their existence by reproduction. If 100% people on earth are gay, human beings will be extinct.

Animals in wild life do not exhibit same sex behaviors. Only those that are domesticated do. Industrialization changed our ways of life, our health and behaviors. It's our price to pay. We have overpopulated the earth. Therefore, more and more homosexual are born is just a nature's way toward balance. In this sense, gay is natural :biggrin:

[marshlander]

Gay is definitely unnatural. I cannot find a reasonable judgment for its existent. All species struggles to maintain their existence by reproduction. If 100% people on earth are gay, human beings will be extinct.

Animals in wild life do not exhibit same sex behaviors. Only those that are domesticated do. Industrialization changed our ways of life, our health and behaviors. It's our price to pay. We have overpopulated the earth. Therefore, more and more homosexual are born is just a nature's way toward balance. In this sense, gay is natural :biggrin:

Normally I'd be content just to disagree with you, but you are wrong. The "if we were 100% gay" argument is so uninformed it is frequently used by the ultra-religious to justify their predilection to gay-bashing safe in the knowledge that it will never occur to the members of the flock to challenge its so-called "logic".

Same sex behaviours have been observed among animals in the wild and in captivity.

There's clearly a wide range of homosexual behaviors in the animal kingdom. It's widespread, common and impossible to deny or explain away any longer. Homosexuality is natural as green grass in summer, and it's high time we accepted that fact.

The birds do it. It's been described in 130 species of birds. The southeastern blueberry bees do it. Same sex pairs of animals kiss and caress each other with obvious affection and tenderness. Male pairs and female pairs form long-lasting pair-bonds and reject, threaten, even fight off potential opposite sex partners when they are presented with them. Same sex partners engage in almost every conceivable means of sexual expression throughout the animal kingdom.

It's high time we quit criminalizing something that is so normal, so natural, so harmless and so common among animals and recognize that what we call "sodomy" is really quite natural after all.

We're animals. And being animals, we should quit trying to pretend that we're not. What we call a "crime against nature" isn't unnatural, and it shouldn't be a crime.

Find the rest of the article here.

You suggest that nature has some kind of master plan? I thought I was the sandal-wearing veggie round here While the figure may vary in different studies I'd be surprised to find any evidence that there are more homosexuals now than there have ever been, although I'd be interested to see the source of your assertion that there are.

[joseph]

. i was supposed to and proper gay man now. i not done it on pupose it was alredy happned

[colinmackay]

Gay is definitely unnatural. I cannot find a reasonable judgment for its existent. All species struggles to maintain their existence by reproduction. If 100% people on earth are gay, human beings will be extinct.

Animals in wild life do not exhibit same sex behaviors. Only those that are domesticated do. Industrialization changed our ways of life, our health and behaviors. It's our price to pay. We have overpopulated the earth. Therefore, more and more homosexual are born is just a nature's way toward balance. In this sense, gay is natural :biggrin:

I find that remarkably uninformed.

Just because *you* cannot find a "reasonable judgement for its existence" does not mean that one does not exist.

If 100% of people are gay does not mean we become extinct. I still want kids and there are options open to me. Where there is a will, there is a,way. (and it doesn't necessarily require technological solutions, although the way the law is here it may require it so that certain legalities regarding guardianship are observed)

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[Pickles]

Basically, there's no way we will ever know whether it is indeed nature or nurture that makes us gay. I think that each indevidual gay has their own reasons for being so. Personally, I consider it to be nurture (for the most par) because I had a weak connection with my father and a closer bond with my mother- which remains to this day.

I have seen an article, I don't remeber by whom now but it said this-
Homosexuality occurs when a child has a particular connection with the parent of the opposite sex. For instance- When straight boys were younger they learned how to act around oter males from their fathers, they saw how walk, talk and play. Really, they picked up little things about the way their father went about life. However, if a young boy has a closerconection with their mother then they learn how the mother acts- talks and walks. They develope similar emotions and traits from their mother - which is carried on through puberty where the boy will possibly start to see an attraction in members of the same sex.

Although this is a solid reason behind my sexuality, I believe there is a whole other universe of reasons.

As for gay being unnatural- I agree with that... but only to a certain extent.
It's not natural because some would argue that humans are on earth to reproduce-
But who exactly has the right to define what the purpose of life is?

[marshlander]

Basically, there's no way we will ever know whether it is indeed nature or nurture that makes us gay. I think that each indevidual gay has their own reasons for being so. Personally, I consider it to be nurture (for the most par) because I had a weak connection with my father and a closer bond with my mother- which remains to this day.

I have seen an article, I don't remeber by whom now but it said this-
Homosexuality occurs when a child has a particular connection with the parent of the opposite sex. For instance- When straight boys were younger they learned how to act around oter males from their fathers, they saw how walk, talk and play. Really, they picked up little things about the way their father went about life. However, if a young boy has a closerconection with their mother then they learn how the mother acts- talks and walks. They develope similar emotions and traits from their mother - which is carried on through puberty where the boy will possibly start to see an attraction in members of the same sex.

Although this is a solid reason behind my sexuality, I believe there is a whole other universe of reasons.

As for gay being unnatural- I agree with that... but only to a certain extent.
It's not natural because some would argue that humans are on earth to reproduce-
But who exactly has the right to define what the purpose of life is?

In reverse order? We are thinking beings and it is part of our make up that we attempt to explain phenomena around us.

I agree, the reasons are probably very complex and interactive.

Ah, the old "absent father" excuse so beloved of the ex-gay missionaries. It may play a small part, but on its own it is not enough to make e significant difference ... probably.

Several studies have been carried out using identical twins separated at birth. These show a significantly higher correlation than mere environmental factors would explain. Where one twin was found to be gay, the other was often gay also.

Sorry I don't have the time this morning to provide you with the references, but don't get taken in by all that ex-gay nonsense.

[fredv3b]

I just wanted to add two points that haven't already been mentioned. I agree that it would be unnatural for everyone to be gay (for reason of the survival of the species) however that does not mean it's unnatural for a few people to be gay. If the absent father theory were correct then there would be a huge generation of gay men whose fathers died in the war.

[Pickles]

Woow Horse!

Don't knock the theory. My theory, and it's a pretty one, plus it gives me someone to blame when It all goes pear shaped for me

Ral research tells us that its 30% nature and 70% nurture anyway

[fredv3b]

Ral research tells us that its 30% nature and 70% nurture anyway

Which research? I would be interested to read it.

[Daniel6]

This is my hypothesis:
Wrong diet -> Degeneration (including homosexuality).

Dr Pottenger did experiment on cats. He fed raw meat, raw milk vs cooked meat, pasteurized milk to his cats. The cats on raw meat and raw milk showed greatest strength and no weakness or diseases in their offsprings. While the others appeared sicked and degeneration happened in their offsprings In these cats, their third generation was impotent. (wikipedia "Francis_M._Pottenger,_Jr.")
Human are not like cats but we are animal anyways.