A Double Standard

[Uranus1]

I would imagine this topic (in general) has been discussed at some time and somewhere in one of the many Forums here on Gayspeak; however I would like to share some thoughts with all of you who may be interested …..
Nowhere does there seem to be the term “double standard” more accurately defined than with the subject of condom usage among gays.
In many instances, the sheer mention of sex used in the same sentence (or circumstance) with the word gay leads to many people immediately jumping on the “play safe” bandwagon. And, if someone suggests that two guys having bareback (‘unprotected sex’) is ok, all hell breaks loose.
I did not fully realize the scope of this subject, or the intense feelings people in general (and gays in particular) have regarding this subject, until I began viewing Websites and Forums which have to do with Male Escorts, Bare Back Sex, and Adult Gay Video (DVD’s).

Apparently – from observation, experience, and discussions that I have had with the above mentioned – at least 95 percent of everyone “out there” seem to have adopted the idea, belief and opinion - and with resounding conviction – ALL Gays MUST use condoms when having sex; to do otherwise is somehow the worst thing that can happen in society.
Yet, many of these same individuals who are so very adamant about using condoms when having sex with a guy, will not even for a second consider using a condom when having sex with a gal. Nor do they ‘see’ any special need health-wise to do so.

Recently, I even encountered (on several occasions) guys who actually will not consider even oral sex with another guy unless a condom is used! [Remember that cartoon about the dog looking at the cat who was ‘cleaning’ herself just after going to the potty box … and the dog says: Yuck! Phew! No way! – well, I was reminded of that when confronted with the demand that a condom be used during oral sex!]

This subject of condom usage – and Bareback Sex - (and the Double Standard that it has caused to be unleashed in society) – is directly connected to a particular situation that developed in society starting in 1978. But more on that subject, later.

DJ

[Pickles]

Well, protection is used for good reason. If my sources are correct the anus is the easiest place to pick up and STI. And, I think those guys that are 'overly cautious' deserve some credit, they're just trying to be safe I supose.

-Matthew.

[colinmackay]

I would imagine this topic (in general) has been discussed at some time and somewhere in one of the many Forums here on Gayspeak; however I would like to share some thoughts with all of you who may be interested …..
Nowhere does there seem to be the term “double standard” more accurately defined than with the subject of condom usage among gays.
In many instances, the sheer mention of sex used in the same sentence (or circumstance) with the word gay leads to many people immediately jumping on the “play safe” bandwagon. And, if someone suggests that two guys having bareback (‘unprotected sex’) is ok, all hell breaks loose.
I did not fully realize the scope of this subject, or the intense feelings people in general (and gays in particular) have regarding this subject, until I began viewing Websites and Forums which have to do with Male Escorts, Bare Back Sex, and Adult Gay Video (DVD’s).

Apparently – from observation, experience, and discussions that I have had with the above mentioned – at least 95 percent of everyone “out there” seem to have adopted the idea, belief and opinion - and with resounding conviction – ALL Gays MUST use condoms when having sex; to do otherwise is somehow the worst thing that can happen in society.
Yet, many of these same individuals who are so very adamant about using condoms when having sex with a guy, will not even for a second consider using a condom when having sex with a gal. Nor do they ‘see’ any special need health-wise to do so.

Recently, I even encountered (on several occasions) guys who actually will not consider even oral sex with another guy unless a condom is used! [Remember that cartoon about the dog looking at the cat who was ‘cleaning’ herself just after going to the potty box … and the dog says: Yuck! Phew! No way! – well, I was reminded of that when confronted with the demand that a condom be used during oral sex!]

This subject of condom usage – and Bareback Sex - (and the Double Standard that it has caused to be unleashed in society) – is directly connected to a particular situation that developed in society starting in 1978. But more on that subject, later.

DJ

Okay... wow!

First, when you were "confronted with the demand that a condom be used during oral sex!" and your reaction to it here, all I can say is that the other person was right. Not that they are right in general (I have no idea what the answer is there), but they were right to demand it. Above ALL else, it is THEIR body and THEIR right to demand what they like in that regard. If they demand condom only and you refuse and go in anyway you are committing an act non-consensual sex (they didn't consent to condom-free, they consented only with the condom). To use a stronger word, it is "rape".

Everyone has a different attitude to risk. I'm quite risk averse, and (assuming I was available) if you came to me and demanded condom-free intercourse, I'd quite quickly where you can shove it.

Now, let's be sensible about this. If you are having lots of casual sex then condom use is definitely advised. If you settle down with a single long term partner who is also remaining faithful to you and you have both been tested then you can forego the condoms.

I don't know where you get this idea that "at least 95 percent of everyone “out there” seem to have adopted the idea, belief and opinion - and with resounding conviction – ALL Gays MUST use condoms when having sex; to do otherwise is somehow the worst thing that can happen in society" because as far as I can see the situation is much the reverse. That's why there are lots of sexual health adverts saying that you should be using condoms because so many don't.

Finally, on to this double standard you mention: "many of these same individuals who are so very adamant about using condoms when having sex with a guy, will not even for a second consider using a condom when having sex with a gal. Nor do they ‘see’ any special need health-wise to do so."

Citation, please. Where are you getting this information from? It isn't my experience that this is the case. Who are those people?

[MegaFullbuster]

Everyone who wants to should use condoms.
I mean if you care about diseases use condoms and don't have sex with people unless you know they are disease free.
Otherwise it is a personal choice and I would never infringe on peoples lives and their choices.

[Uranus1]

This response is hereby directed to Gayspeak Forum Member Colinmackay.
Your reply to my Thread: Double Standard, deserves an intelligent response - if only to elaborate on my original posting for other members (and visitors) of Gayspeak Forums to view as they read your comments to my posting.
I placed side-by-side - on my computer - my original Thread and your Responses to it. There are three (3) main responses from you, and two (2) Sub-responses. Here then, I shall take them in order of your mention – minus the two sub-responses, as I am not even sure Gayspeak is going to allow me to use the amount of space here on the Forum for answering your main responses let alone include a reply to every little detail of your response.
1) My Original Statement:
Recently, I even encountered (on several occasions) guys who actually will not consider even oral sex with another guy unless a condom is used! [Remember that cartoon about the dog looking at the cat who was ‘cleaning’ herself just after going to the potty box … and the dog says: Yuck! Phew! No way! – well, I was reminded of that when confronted with the demand that a condom be used during oral sex!]

Your Response:
First, when you were "confronted with the demand that a condom be used during oral sex!" and your reaction to it here, all I can say is that the other person was right. Not that they are right in general (I have no idea what the answer is there), but they were right to demand it. Above ALL else, it is THEIR body and THEIR right to demand what they like in that regard. If they demand condom only and you refuse and go in anyway you are committing an act non-consensual sex (they didn't consent to condom-free, they consented only with the condom). To use a stronger word, it is "rape".


My Reply To You:
Nowhere in my original statement did I say, or directly imply, that the person whom I was with when the above statement (about using a condom during oral sex) was made to me that I felt he was WRONG or somehow LESS of a person (soul) than I. I merely was pointing out that his adamant proclivity regarding condom usage -directed towards me in this instance - reminded me of that cartoon which I quoted therewith.
As for your reference to “rape”: Sir, I am proud to say I have NEVER in my life “raped” anyone –
Man or Woman.

2) My Original Statement:
Apparently – from observation, experience, and discussions that I have had with the above mentioned – at least 95 percent of everyone “out there” seem to have adopted the idea, belief and opinion - and with resounding conviction – ALL Gays MUST use condoms when having sex; to do otherwise is somehow the worst thing that can happen in society.

Your Response:
I don't know where you get this idea that "at least 95 percent of everyone “out there” seem to have adopted the idea, belief and opinion - and with resounding conviction – ALL Gays MUST use condoms when having sex; to do otherwise is somehow the worst thing that can happen in society" because as far as I can see the situation is much the reverse. That's why there are lots of sexual health adverts saying that you should be using condoms because so many do not.


My Reply To You:
I agree with you that: sexual adverts are often saying one should use condoms. And yes, many persons do not; but more particularly when it comes to having sex with an opposite gender. That was my point – and you missed it.
As for your apparent objection to my use of certain percentage points (e.g., 95 percent), from what you have said in your response – and in the manner in which you said it – I strongly suspect that you are not so concerned by my use of a certain percentage point as you are about the fact that I have made a statement which is in direct contradiction to your opinions and beliefs.

3) My Original Statement:
Yet, many of these same individuals who are so very adamant about using condoms when having sex with a guy, will not even for a second consider using a condom when having sex with a gal. Nor do they ‘see’ any special need health-wise to do so.

Your Response:
Citation, please. Where are you getting this information from? It isn't my experience that this is the case. Who are those people?

My Reply To You:
‘Citation’ ? For those persons interested, please look up the word “citation” in a dictionary. Ask yourself: Is this word used in the proper context?

As for where I am getting this information from, apparently in your haste to disagree with me, you overlooked the fact that I stated: Apparently – from observation, experience, and discussions that I have had with the above mentioned … ” – e.g.: Websites and Forums which have to do with Male Escorts, Bare Back Sex, and Adult Gay Video (DVD’s).
In addition to the above three sources, I have an extensive background dealing with persons from ALL walks of life via both my Astrological Counseling Services, and, from conversations with personal acquaintances and friendships cultivated over an extended period of time.

As for ‘who are these people’, do you truly expect me to make public a list of people whom have confided in me over the years (and also just recently), about this particular topic – or any other for that matter?
For me to comply with your request, I would be violating the trust those persons, groups, and organizations placed in me. And that is just for starters.

DJ

[fredv3b]

Apparently – from observation, experience, and discussions that I have had with the above mentioned – at least 95 percent of everyone “out there” seem to have adopted the idea, belief and opinion - and with resounding conviction – ALL Gays MUST use condoms when having sex; to do otherwise is somehow the worst thing that can happen in society.

Assuming you are correct why does this matter to you so much?

[FONT=Calibri][SIZE=3][COLOR=darkgreen]Recently, I even encountered (on several occasions) guys who actually will not consider even oral sex with another guy unless a condom is used!

Given your reply to Colin I am unsure what you were meaning to say by mentioning this and by your use of the exclamation mark.

[colinmackay]

Given your reply to Colin I am unsure what you were meaning to say by mentioning this and by your use of the exclamation mark.

Don't worry, I'm completely confused now.

As far as I can see it is a meandering semi-rant with no real factual basis, but just a series of ill defined anecdotes strung together.

[marshlander]

I have a feeling you could be right, but I don't have enough personal experience to comment either way. I wonder whether there are differences in behaviours and attitudes in Nevada and in the UK?

[princealbertofb]

I think what DJ is trying to point out, if he's trying to point out anything, is the hypocrisy of what people say and what they actually do... and why would they be careful with men because ... while not being safe with women (if they are bisexuals). I have seen men from porn sites that also do straight porn and don't protect themselves with the ladies.

[Uranus1]

I think what DJ is trying to point out, if he's trying to point out anything, is the hypocrisy of what people say and what they actually do... and why would they be careful with men because ... while not being safe with women (if they are bisexuals). I have seen men from porn sites that also do straight porn and don't protect themselves with the ladies.

Thanks for your intelligent reply, princealbertofb.

DJ