drocko17 Wrote:being a masculine gay is a result of a defense mechanism, of having troubles in accepting the way we are and trying to 'disguise', is that always true?
I’m sure we can all be a bit flamboyant at times, but I don’t think that being gay means acting a certain way.
Putting sexual orientation aside for a second:
If I chose the life of a sophisticated man/woman, who loves to read, stay at home and write/paint (I have a point to this I swear), I would do these things because I like to.
Or maybe I like to organize social events with an outrageous purpose, get drunk, and act like life is one big party, I would do these things because I like to.
I’d then assume that the “sophisticated person†would act respectable and well kept to show his/her lifestyle, and want to attract people who feel the same way. Likewise for the energetic person, whom would want to attract people with common interests.
Wouldn’t this then translate to masculine and effeminate gays? This is just where my heads at, maybe I’m just not met enough people...
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drocko17 Wrote:but...
tell me something, not just you pocket, but everyone. you speak as if being a masculine gay is a result of a defense mechanism, of having troubles in accepting the way we are and trying to 'disguise', is that always true?
what i actually meant was that i acted all "spaced out" (like the real me was severely diluted in a more child-like or overly-expressive behaviour) as a defense mechanism. i didn't know how to handle myself so i didn't try to act according to how i really felt, but instead presented a whole other persona to the outside world. sometimes i felt like one of those sad clowns at the circus. i am not saying being flamboyant/masculine are usually defense mechanisms, but they can become that if they are not the normal behaviour of the person in question. i think that i am a more unusual case, because when you think about it, most gay people that prefer to act straight do it by trying to be as masculine as possible. for me it was the opposite, i accentuated my childish side so that everyone would see me as an innocent but immature guy. looking back, i shudder to think i ever did something like that, but it's part of my past so i accept it now.
the human psychology and behaviour are always fascinating to me.
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Again I find myself agreeing with what has long gone before me ...
For what it's worth, I believe the reason some homosexuals dislike the manner in which other homosexuals behave is because there is a common misconception that, since we share the same sexual preference at its most basic level, we should therefore have some kind of implied camaraderie flowing from that similarity.
Ultimately I feel people that look down their noses at really camp and/or effeminate gay guys probably do so because they feel those people are living up to the much-hyped stereotype of what it is to be a gay man and that, because of this, they are creating a bad impression for the rest of us, as it adds fuel to the fire of people's arguments that we're all like that.
Whilst the effeminate are generally singled-out as being the most obvious example, you might just as easily focus on other types of behaviour that epitomise the bog-standard gay stereotypes, like (for want of a better word) the slut - somebody that seems to EXIST for promiscuous sex, and will take any and all comers anytime, anywhere.
I think the best way of viewing the situation is that, whilst you're a homo, you're still an individual, and anybody that tars you with the same brush as they would any other homo is doing you both a disservice, as there is really only one thing that you have in common ... you both like ... well ... you-know-what !!
If you're able to look at it that way, then I think you'll be able to lessen these feelings of animosity you may have towards any particular group of gay guys.
That feels better ... now I'm off to go kick someone's head in :biggrin:
Kidding !!!!! 
!?!?! Shadow !?!?!
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one time i was in Rome and randomly came across a massive gay pride parade. all of the men were wearing black leather s&m outfits, bright feather costumes, or nothing at all. i'm gay obviously but still was horrified with this...how can we as a group of people ever get the respect we deserve when heterosexuals view us in this nature? this may sound awful and i apologize sincerely if it does but i would never want to associate myself with someone that would wear a black leather s&m outfit on the street. i dont judge these people in the slightest but this is simply not what gay culture represents. even to this day i role my eyes when i hear an extremely effeminate man. i am trying to be accepting of as many people as i can but i hate it when people exacerbate a stereotype. *rant over*
i really hope i didn't offend anyone there and i am really sorry if i have!
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Unfrotunatley Swim, it's exactly becasue those people WHERE/ARE brave enough to be who and whatever they wish to be that so many gays and lesbians have the easy lives they do today.
See, the big problem here is NOT how "they" act, but as Shadow was trying to say, how we don't want others to think WE are like them. And that's OUR problem not theirs. You are who you are and if you let strangers opinions rule your life than in the end it's your problem and not the actions of someone else. They might be effiminate and straights might think all gays are that way, but you know better and that is simply their ignorance. If you let their opinions change you or how you see life, then THAT is your fault.
You're either feminine, masculien, average, all in leather or covered in feathers, OR NOT. NO ammount of strangers opinions changes the truth. I have friends from all wealks of life and lead all kinds of lifestyles, from huge queens to uptight wall street types and snooty rich people and even a few homeless friends....none of them are me. What people think when I talk to them should hopefuly be that I am someone who is tolerant of others.
If they think anything else it's in their own imaginations for their own reasons. It doesn't change the truth. That said, there is no law we have to like or get along with everyone, just hopefuly do it for the right reasons. For yourself and not becasue of how others will percieve you.
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yea, agree with what you all are saying, you might also skim 'real gay pride' thread opened in debates section, we were talking about something similar.
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To me I dislike effiminate gays, as I dislike annoying feminane girls, its nothing to do with self homophobia but just that they generally push my buttons. Nothing against these people as such, some of them are really good looking too but as some people do they simply annoy me. Im sure effiminate gays dislike me for being too quiet or too random or many other of my personality flaws that I never bother to hide.
Nor should they hide who they are, but they just arnt my type of people.
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agree with the above...i don't judge them for acting that way but i really cannot help but cringe and roll my eyes when i see a limp wristed queen wearing woman's jeans and a pink boa. more power to them for being comfortable enough to act that way but unfortunately we live in a society where people judge and everyone knows that. if they get hassled or made fun (which I obviously believe is wrong), i cannot help but think in the back of my mind they had it coming.
also...it is frustrating for me because i am still in the closet and all (i am assuming) of my mates are for the most part straight. the gay stereoypes have made it more difficult and have delayed my coming out as the majority of my mates associate being gay with the persona i described above. they will be shocked, and although i am happy to smash a stereotype i cannot from then on assume that they are 100% OK with me not acting as how a gay man should...if you know what I mean 
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I like both. I'm not sexually or emotionally attracted to the feminine guys, but I have friends like that and they're a blast to hang with. I like masculine guys more, either way.  Still, I really can't help but love hanging around with them. 
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Swim73088, this is something that I think quite a few gay men experience when they come out, and that's that they enter this voidlike period of time, during which they have to basically find their feet with their friends again, inasmuch as they sorta stop and think "ok, so the way I was behaving before was a lie - I know that - I was denying the truth of myself to my closest friends. Now that I'm out of the closet, that means I can be myself, but ........... I've been acting the way I was up until a few hours/days ago for so long, I guess I don't really know quite how I now ought to act !!".
Which is a REALLY weird sensation, and just hammers home that coming out SHOULD by all rights (and whilst it may sound warped, this is EXACTLY what I wish for for ANY gay man that's in the closet and wants to come out) the biggest anti-climax of your entire life. It should feel liberating, definitely, but really-speaking all you want from your mates and your family is for them to go "cool, next !", and to take it as just another facet of you - not the be-all and end-all of your character and existence.
Sounds a bit warped I guess, but a lot of people don't think in these terms until they're faced with it  .
You've got a very level head on such young shoulders babe - I've every confidence in you, and you know we'll all be here for you should you need/want us for owt xx
!?!?! Shadow !?!?!
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masculines vs effeminates? =S =S
