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VonSteuben Wrote:All in UK are against speech against gays. So let me put it other terms, if in UK or Norway a priest speaks out against racial groups or other sexual orientations, then they will be jailed for "Inciting racial or religious hatred". Putting priests in jail helps gay causes? Not to me.
Sorry but no, you are wrong, at least in respect to the U.K. There are laws against inciting hatred on grounds of sexual orientation, there have been laws against incitement to violence and disturbing the peace for centuries. There are no laws against criticising homosexuals or saying gay sex is immoral or sinful.
In reply to the OP, I would have less contempt for the Vatican's views if it was a consistent proponent of free-speech.
Fred
Life is what happens while you are busy making other plans.
![[-]](https://gayspeak.com/images/duende_v3_local/collapse.png)
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posterpicture Wrote:Well the difference is
I am gay and I don't want people who are from Catholic Church go to hell
They are Catholic and they want me to die in hell.
Freedom of speech is not about what we want, it's about how we treat others. While yes your point is a good one, but all in all it's not our belief that makes something come true or not. For I did believe there was a Santa Claus, but in the truth of the matter he doesn't exist, I just believed he did. They believe that gays are evil and there is some lake of fire at the end of this ride, but the thing is they really don't know. They just believe in what they are told should be there to keep an order of things, which they aren't actually privy to because they were born human.
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Santa doesn't exist? What? Say it ain't so, say it AIN'T SO! 
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Wintereis Wrote:Santa doesn't exist? What? Say it ain't so, say it AIN'T SO!
of course he does,I heard VonSteuben was a naughty boy last Christmas so didn't get the toy he was wanting,he if carries on like this he will get no toys this year.
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simon Wrote:of course he does,I heard VonSteuben was a naughty boy last Christmas so didn't get the toy he was wanting,he if carries on like this he will get no toys this year. As for next year ... I'm patient 
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VonSteuben Wrote:... All in UK are against speech against gays ... Isn't mythology fascinating?! 
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marshlander Wrote:Isn't mythology fascinating?!
Right whatever you say, guy. 
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VonSteuben Wrote:Freedom of speech is not about what we want, it's about how we treat others. While yes your point is a good one, but all in all it's not our belief that makes something come true or not. For I did believe there was a Santa Claus, but in the truth of the matter he doesn't exist, I just believed he did. They believe that gays are evil and there is some lake of fire at the end of this ride, but the thing is they really don't know. They just believe in what they are told should be there to keep an order of things, which they aren't actually privy to because they were born human.
That's not the point though, the UK does have freedom of speech, claims otherwise are disingenuous and misrepresenting the anti-discrimination laws.
Neither are people usually jailed for inciting violence even when they do do it, usually it's a minor fine for the worst of them. Nor does the American conception of free speech entail the universal definition of it, whether Americans want to think it does or not. Freedom of speech is limited in the US as well, you can't legally yell fire in a cinema or threaten to kill someone. Limits on speech are more extensive in many European countries, but they are hardly the ridiculous distortion you're representing them as.
Hell, in most of Eastern Europe gay Pride parades need police escorts to protect them from violence, and they are illegal in Russia. The Church is clearly free to express its opinions, as we are all sitting here discussing them so they aren't being prevented from disseminating their nonsense. So, who exactly is oppressed here?
What the church really objects to is people actually responding negatively to their bullshit. It's quite rich that they can accuse certain people of oppressing them when they have bishops in Uganda endorsing life sentences for gays. Let's not be fooled, if the church had their way they wouldn't just be removing marriage and spousal laws, they would be having us jailed.
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VonSteuben Wrote:Freedom of speech is not about what we want, it's about how we treat others. While yes your point is a good one, but all in all it's not our belief that makes something come true or not. For I did believe there was a Santa Claus, but in the truth of the matter he doesn't exist, I just believed he did. They believe that gays are evil and there is some lake of fire at the end of this ride, but the thing is they really don't know. They just believe in what they are told should be there to keep an order of things, which they aren't actually privy to because they were born human.
uhmmmm I just don't see how your post relates to my post :eek:
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posterpicture Wrote:uhmmmm I just don't see how your post relates to my post :eek:
Well your post had a good thought and I was adding onto it. Read it a little closer and you will see the clarity of what I was saying.
Although here it is...your post was about what you believe and what the Church believes, but it is not about what they believe to be true because that doesn't mean it really is. Religion is bent on bending innocent minds into submission just like tyrannical governments do it. However if one looks into what religion does is shines a spotlight on fears and the needs of the masses as these tiny specks of life trying to either demonize the world of differences or trying to accept them for sameness. They believe they are right based on a book 2000 years ago; on the other hand, people today are influenced by the Age of Enlightenment and Post Enlightenment ideas, thus the Age of Reason is on the equal playing field on debate as the Biblical mentality. The only problem is when religion grabs at government power like the Theocracies of the world, because then the exchange of ideas and debate is lost in a power grab of elitism and controlling free speech. In other words, each person believes they are right, but it doesn't make them right.
For example, I am starting to wonder if life has no meaning. Now if I conclude that it doesn't, that doesn't mean there isn't, it just means that I am giving up looking for other alternatives about being happy in life. Everyone else could say life is a bowl of peaches and roses and buttercups or others could say no, it's a bowl of embarrassing moments where you don't fit in, struggle on every decision you make, and fall flat on your face every time you want something else in your life. Yet it is up to the individual to decide what these things are and what their conclusions are, but all in all it's a "I believe this to be right or wrong" but it doesn't mean it's the truth. The truth comes from within not in a book written by mankind to misdirect people into what humans what others to act and think like.
By the way, brevity was never my strong suit. 
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