fed up with being pushed into a box

[East]

I have to say this to you and I hope that you take it in the spirit intended which is to possibly help you...

We all internalize homophobia to some extent...it is inevitable...

You might be surprised to find that people who do not like gay people actually LOVE the stereotypes because it "proves" something to them...they use them to justify their hatred much like racists use thugs to justify their racism.

Wanna know what is worse than the stereotypes? People who are "just like them"...that threatens them far more because they can't hide behind their usual excuses. If you value their opinion and want their acceptance then that is an entirely different issue and has nothing to do with anyone else.

Throwing other people under the bus to appease homophobes and bigots kinda sucks. It displays a weakness of character in my opinion and that is always a choice.

[musicman2229]

I don't think you should be treating the gay community like it's a cult. We don't have a central gay headquarters, we don't pay dues to be gay, and we absolutely do not all think and act the same way. We would be hypocrites if, in light of the acceptance we have sought amongst each other, we spurned you because you vote republican and love god. You brought up politics, which I think could serve as a decent metaphor. When you turn on CSPAN and see the House or the Senate debating, does it ever occur to you why they do that? If it were as simple as Republicans believe this and Democrats believe that, there would be no need for debate. Nobody would ever move on their stance. Obviously some of the people have flexible views and opinions which people try to sway by debating. The gay community is similar. It is every bit as diverse as the millions and millions of different people who comprise it. If every gay person felt the same way about everything, the way people viewed the gay community would be very different, and 100% more valid for better or worse.

That said, I can understand your frustration with how your family judges you on the stereotypes they see in the media. You're 29 and single. Most people would have up and left after 29 years of that. I don't know what your circumstances are with where you live. You mentioned moving isn't really an option for you, but you shouldn't have to take this crap when you're almost 30 and a functioning member of society.

[colinmackay]

Reading some of the other responses I'm thinking you might find it useful to read The Velvet Rage. It might help you see things more clearly and help you understand yourself and other gay people.

Yes, it mentions stereotypes and promiscuity and so on, but it tries to put them in perspective and show how all sorts of people react to their sexuality. Some get all flamboyant while others internalise the hatred (or perceived hatred) of those around them.

I didn't think I'd find myself in there because I don't hit the stereotypes (I was in denial until I was 35) but I did find myself in there and it explained how I got to where I am and gave advise on how to move forward.



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[toomuch45]

WOW i know exactly how you feel:frown:
im like that too i feel the exact way
i dont want you to give up ok this world really really does look upon us so bad
especially where im from in Georgia most of them does some really shady things
there are at times where i myself is afraid of myself because of other people trying to change me and im very lost and lonely plus it pisses me off i really understand your situation.
sometimes i cant even find myself.

this bighug is for you

[Fayt]

It feels good to vent doesn't it (this is supposed to sound mean at all....I hope it didn't)? I normally just bottle it up because I don't really want people to hear my problems and think "why is he complaining to me?" . Yes, that label of being gay, translating into "I must know decorating, fashion and -- etc" (although being in art, I do know some of that stuff XD) No one can tell you who you are or should be. I've fell into that, having people mold me, but now I'm breaking free . I love the message the song "Riptide" has, and I feel I mention that song too much XD. Right now, I'm making an art piece that has part of it describing who I really am, and if nobody agrees, then I feel sorry for them.

Point is, you are who you make yourself to be. Normal is how you've always been, not how you should be. And this ramble is done, probably missed the point as well lol. Have a free hug

[ardus]

All I can say is good on you my friend. When I first accepted my own sexuality I went through all kinds of struggles with how can I be who I am and still like men, etc etc, and I came out where you came out, I'm still a gun toting, football watching, tobacco chewing, cigar smoking infantryman, I just happen to like men. It doesn't have to define who I am and everything I do in my life.
Richard

[princealbertofb]

Dville, that was some vent!!! Whew. Take a deep breath and think. OK, so this was all about how prejudice breeds more prejudice... and how you hate prejudice. So there must be something to the saying or expression, live and let live, the ultimate liberty.

The picture that struck me was that image of the naked man walking down the street wearing nothing but a prince albert and waving a flag in your name, and how you felt threatened or betrayed by that image... Well, I'd like to say he was waving it in HIS name, not yours and in the name of all those who could relate to him.

Obviously, we have lots of people who are against gay pride parades and who wish gays didn't flaunt it so much or push it in their faces...but is that the kind of person YOU are? I don't think so. Some of us are in fact quite private ... the same as the straight population out there. This is no reason for denying those who want to remember that it's OK to be gay, and who want to remind others of the struggle that being gay and proud meant in the past, the right to march down the streets in colourful array.

It also struck me, last night as I was watching a behind the scenes documentary about porn, how I don't know how porn stars manage to perform with all those camera crews around them.... I know it's a job, but I just don't know if I'd ever be able to perform in front of people. Some people are show offs, others aren't. So "gay" might define part of you, and the way you feel sexually but it certainly doesn't define everything that you are.

I think GaySpeak is one place where a lot of members don't feel so at ease with the gay scene and even try to run from it. Do you think you relate to that?

If your parents think that gay is all the things that you described in your first post, well I hope you'll educate them some day and prove them to be wrong. But East has a point in saying that it's more comfortable to create a discrimination rather than see their own part of humanity in what the word GAY concentrates.

[azulai]

When I first read your rant I laughed and stepped away. My reaction was pretty much: OMG! There are people having fun? As someone who attends a university in the big city but lives in a rural suburb of the great white North, I really can't believe you haven't head of a New Orleans Mardi Gras (show us your tits!), girls gone wild, Frat parties, or Spring Break when I have. So, it's only “the gays” that are not allowed to walk around in g-strings or speedos. I wonder if you feel uncomfortable watching the men's diving competition during the Olympics?

Puritanism – the haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be happy. ~Henry Mencken

This quote is the second thing that popped into my mind. Then, I did do you the courtesy of reading your old posts before responding. You titled your thread: “fed up with being pushed into a box.” I really disagree with your assessment of your situation. I think you have put yourself in a box and you feel entrapped by your life, your family, your neighbors, and your real estate investment. That said, you've decided to scapegoat those gays with “flagrant behavior,” because certainly it's them and not you who have caused this situation.

I think you need to examine your life. I think you have a "flagrant" case of envy. See, those gay men that you have singled out are living their life as they choose, not as others define them to be. You envy their freedom to be who they truly are. And, that is your problem.

You would rather deny others the right to express who they are and ban perceived gay behavior. Why not just round them up, maybe house them in a camp and eventually exterminate them? Because they have no value as people, as individuals that have the same intrinsic worth as you because you are “masculine acting” and they, act fem or enjoy drag or have fun being playfully camp and are beneath you. Check out what this “minister” did to this 4 year old boy, because he was thought to be gay . Is this ok?

I also think you would be better suited to the more self-loathing, GOProud rather than the Log Cabin Republicans. I tend to be more of an Independent, because I do like looking at separate issues when voting. Would you vote for Bachmann or Santorium who recently signed the sexist, racist, homophobic, and unconstitutional "Marriage Vow,” which among other things, implies that black children were better off under slavery? (Honestly, I think they are using her to make Romney look more appealing.)

I guess, I don't understand how this is a party of less government when they want to big brother the bedroom, and form a theocracy. Now, I'll be honest, I'm not looking forward to one day paying outrageous taxes on my income, and I abhor laziness and believe everyone should get off their ass and work. But I do use the public roads and a multitude of other services that we all need to contribute to. And, guess what? I want to get married one day. So, right now that is a big issue for me in examining candidates. National Journal Political Insiders Poll: Gay Marriage Gains Ground Among Insiders. I also want the protection of ENDA (federal Employment Non-Discrimination Act). These are the two big political issues for me, right now in my life. So, that's where I'm coming from. And, I do argue a lot with my dad about the economy, Obama and health insurance, so your feelings are not foreign to me. I'm not pushing any agenda on you.

So, let's go back to that gay behavior and those people that you don't want your family or friends to connect you with. I dare to say that without that “out” behavior there would be no marriage in NY, I would not have an LGBT Center at my university and you wouldn't have all of these organizations in your fine city of Atlanta. Funny what you find on the internet, Mr, IT!

The Rainbow Center
Full list of all the resources you have available in Atlanta
Funny, they also have numerous RELIGIOUS groups welcoming to gays. WOW! Yes, you can be gay and religious! LGBT-inclusive churches and congregations across Georgia.

And, look at this Georgia Log Cabin Republicans, right there in Atlanta! List of other gay political groups in your area, in case you may want to catch you a fine hot young Democrat! :biggrin:

You really have no excuse. It appears you just spend your time searching for companionship on dating sites, which is foolish when you have all those LOCAL resources and a car. I tend to be amazed at all the gay guys who never intersect their personal interests with “the gay.” They only see bars or online as the place to meet, then they bitch about not being able to meet nice guys, just the ones wanting sex. Well, join your local LGBT Center, look at the freaking bulletin board and see when the hikers are going for a hike, or the cycling group is going to ride to the lake, or any other group will meet. There are nice guys out there and there are many of us who only want monogamy.

Also, you do need to appreciate the history and what those drag queens at Stonewall did for us here in the US. Because without their stance, none of these LGBT Resources would be available today. Fact is that there were attempts prior to Stonewall for recognition, and social acceptance but they went nowhere.

Frank Kameny soon realized the pivotal change brought by the Stonewall riots. An organizer of gay activism in the 1950s, he was used to persuasion, trying to convince heterosexuals that gay people were no different than they were. When he and other people marched in front of the White House, the State Department and Independence Hall only five years earlier, their objective was to look as if they could work for the U.S. government.[120] Ten people marched with Kameny then, and they alerted no press to their intentions. Although he was stunned by the upheaval by participants in the Annual Reminder in 1969, he later observed, "By the time of Stonewall, we had fifty to sixty gay groups in the country. A year later there was at least fifteen hundred. By two years later, to the extent that a count could be made, it was twenty-five hundred." Source wiki, Stonewall riots

So, yeah, I went to my area's Pride Festival and parade for the first time this year. I went with my LGBT group from school. But it was a big surprise because it felt more like a country fair atmosphere with lots of families and kids. The parade had a few sights but nothing that kids haven't seen at the beach or on TV. I think the movement is growing up. You have to realize that for the longest time the only individuals BRAVE ENOUGH to be out were the drag queens and porn stars.

Until “straight acting” gay men have the same courage (and I'm right there with you hiding in my closet) to stand up and OUT, the effeminate perception will be there in the fore. So, you and I really don't have a right to complain about them.

If you want men to show your family that represent another picture of "the gay" why not show them the speeches of New York Sen. Tom Duane or MN State Senator Scott Dibble or Fort Worth City Councilman Joel Burns. There are out men that you can use as examples.

So, yeah, you might find my words harsh but I read your rant, so read mine. I think you have a lot of resources available to you in your area so you have no excuse. Sorry if I can't join in your pity party, because you need to change your attitude. You are so worried about what other people think about you. How is that living? You are almost 30 years old. Grow up and stop blaming other people (your family, your neighbors, fem guys), get up, get out and start building a life for yourself. The one constant in the gay community, especially here at GS, is be true to yourself and be proud of who you are. You don't need to see a therapist, you need to stop the self-pity and start living.

[mooninleo]

oh Honey, it sounds like as a Leo your fire sign is truly speaking out. As a fellow fire sign, esp an Aries, I have lots of problems with people telling me who to be and what to be. Its quite difficult. Wanting to feel like a part of something, but also being an individual.

This week i've been blessed to have vacation time and get some perspective on who i am, and to get out of 'my box' for some fresh ideas. Can you get out for a while and stay with a friend or something?

But honestly, its hard because if you become over involved you will have issues really being able to discconnect from it and be yourself. This is why alone time is important, to regain your energy and know what truly matters and feels right with you.

I'm an introvert a lot of the time. when i find my social groups are trying to tell me who and how to be, i always get a little weary.. and if i don't watch myself, i can get consumed with things i don't necessarily care about. This is the same with just friendships too (and my mother, auuuugh!!!!).. but yeah, it sounds like you know who you are, and thats fantastic. i'd honestly like talking to you more if you want, cuz i really like people who are individuals and dont get cauhgt up in everyone elses rat race.

i live in san francisco right now.. but i'm really considering moving to the suburbs where i can have more space and freedom to just be me.

cheers to ya!

[princealbertofb]

When I first read your rant I laughed and stepped away. My reaction was pretty much: OMG! There are people having fun? ....
So, yeah, you might find my words harsh but I read your rant, so read mine. I think you have a lot of resources available to you in your area so you have no excuse. Sorry if I can't join in your pity party, because you need to change your attitude. You are so worried about what other people think about you. How is that living? You are almost 30 years old. Grow up and stop blaming other people (your family, your neighbors, fem guys), get up, get out and start building a life for yourself. The one constant in the gay community, especially here at GS, is be true to yourself and be proud of who you are. You don't need to see a therapist, you need to stop the self-pity and start living.

Harsh words maybe, Azulai, but a reminder that needed to be expressed. I think this is what I was trying to say in my own post in a more subdued way, perhaps. Thanks for taking the time to post all of this and share it with us. I commend you.
I'd like to point out to our Atlanta friend here that his rage would be better aimed at combating the prejudices that are prevalent around him. Of course we are not all like the man in the thong waving his rainbow flad down the street on a Pride Day, but we are probably one of the colours of that rainbow...