The Right to Keep and Bear Arms.

[Pix]

the USA has become the most violent and crime ridden of all the modern industrialized societies

I'm not so sure we're the most violent and crime ridden of modern industrialized societies...I think Mexico and Russia have us beat. Some South American country (Brazil?) even has criminals who massacre entire police stations (and cops in that country sometimes switch to working for drug dealers for the better pay).

But I agree with you about our prisons, which are also legalized slavery as well, but I'd amend that the majority of prisoners are there for non violent drug offenses like smoking pot.

in the book" liberal fascism" by Goldberg he says Che Guevara would kill anyone and he killed young guys like 17

Yeah, Che could be a bastard (but the world is full of those and he was fighting many bastards). I'm one of those who don't worship him. I do wear a Che beret (with red star!) but that's because my BFF got it for me for Christmas as a joke and because I enjoy the irony that the beret was produced by the Capitalism Che opposed (though I sincerely hope it wasn't made in some Central American sweatshop as some Che swag is).

But I've longed taken anything Jonah Goldberg says with a grain of salt. He's a talented writer, but he's quick to use selective vision and logical fallacies to make his points and that makes anything he says suspect in my eyes.

I've never read Liberal Fascism, but I just looked it up and going by the reviews I presume he shares how like the Nazis were the first modern nation to come down hard on smoking. But does Goldberg also explore the Nazi obsession with promoting Christianity (especially in the schools and military) or in persecuting gays? Knowing Goldberg I'd bet he didn't, because that's just how he normally is.

down with oppression

usa will remain free

If you think that's because we're armed, then that's true as long as the vast majority of citizens--which would bleed into our police and military so that they'd stand with us, too--are armed and prepared to violently resist oppression. Otherwise, the 2A won't be of any help there. And I can easily imagine scenarios where a great many NRA members would happily be deputized to enforce the oppression of a right wing theocratic police state. 'Course I'd resist that police state to my utmost, including with my own guns, but I have no delusions that I could stop oppression, they'd only be used as a last resort in my escape to Canada (and of course using them would bring the attention of the state down on me making my escape to Canada less likely so ideally I wouldn't use my guns at all in escaping US tyranny).

Ah crap, I just realized I've gone OT. But having constructed the above I don't want to throw it away, so I apologize if I annoy anyone. :redface:

[HollandofFrance]

"I've never read Liberal Fascism, but I just looked it up and going by the reviews I presume he shares how like the Nazis were the first modern nation to come down hard on smoking. But does Goldberg also explore the Nazi obsession with promoting Christianity (especially in the schools and military) or in persecuting gays? Knowing Goldberg I'd bet he didn't, because that's just how he normally is."

Goldberg is Jewish-how do you know him if you havent read his stuff?-he hates nazis-im sure he knows nazis killed gays

[Pix]

Goldberg is Jewish-how do you know him if you havent read his stuff?-he hates nazis-im sure he knows nazis killed gays

Yes, I know he's Jewish. And I've read his articles for years (since 2000), so that's how I'm aware of how he thinks and writes.

[East]

He is an anti gay conservative author who hates liberals. I am a Liberal and I am gay....he helps promote the deception that Liberals=Nazis.

He might know Nazis killed gays but he certainly hasn't learned much from history. He is part of the disinformation machine and one of the right wing darlings....

He considers gays the aggressors in a cultural war

....

Goldberg calls the gays 'the aggressors in the cultural war' while the Mormons funded Proposition 8 to the tune of more than $20 million. Millions of Californians lost their civil rights. Those are the spoils of a cultural war and the religious right fought tooth and nail to rip them from Americans, severing families and hurting children in the process.


I hope this is just a fluke and we dont' have to see anti gay right wing propaganda here too often......I avoid all of that crap because it makes me sick to my stomach...I would think a gay site might at least be free of that influence.

[jeffrey]

When I was a kid my grandfather would take me hunting. He taught me firearm safety and that a gun must be used responsibly. Those were cherished memories. I still remember the haunting sound of the hound baying deep in the woods on a cold winter night, or the rush of excitment as hundreds of ducks were coming in for the landing.
I don't have much time for hunting these days, but when I get the chance, there are few things in life as satisfying as spending some time deep in the woods with an elegant hunting rifle in my hands. Just to hear the wind blowing gently through the pines make it all worthwhile. This is what I think firearm ownership should be like. It has nothing to do with committing a crime, or harming anyone
in any way.

[jjernigan]

Goldberg calls the gays 'the aggressors in the cultural war' while the Mormons funded Proposition 8 to the tune of more than $20 million. Millions of Californians lost their civil rights.

As a conservative, I think the Prop 8 argument in California is fantastic. I could not care less whether gay folks have the right to marry each other. Yes or no, I don't care. I suppose I shouldn't say that. I am friendly to the gay movement so I think they should be allowed to marry. What I'm saying is though that it doesn't really affect me. What I think is fantastic is that citizens of the states that are starting to allow gay marriage are going to use the traveling clause in the US Constitution to force other states states to recognize their marriage license issued from another state. BRING IT!!!

When that happens, my NRA dues will go toward a court proceeding that will use the traveling clause to force other states, like Illinois, to recognize my Concealed Carry Permit issued by the State of Texas. The traveling clause can't be used to allow a marriage license while prohibiting a CCW. I wonder if the liberal folks that are trying to use this clause have thought it completely through.

The most violent places in this country have strict gun control laws. Hmmm... So is gun control about guns or is it about control?

[East]

As a conservative, I think the Prop 8 argument in California is fantastic. I could not care less whether gay folks have the right to marry each other. Yes or no, I don't care. I suppose I shouldn't say that. I am friendly to the gay movement so I think they should be allowed to marry. What I'm saying is though that it doesn't really affect me. What I think is fantastic is that citizens of the states that are starting to allow gay marriage are going to use the traveling clause in the US Constitution to force other states states to recognize their marriage license issued from another state. BRING IT!!!

When that happens, my NRA dues will go toward a court proceeding that will use the traveling clause to force other states, like Illinois, to recognize my Concealed Carry Permit issued by the State of Texas. The traveling clause can't be used to allow a marriage license while prohibiting a CCW. I wonder if the liberal folks that are trying to use this clause have thought it completely through.

The most violent places in this country have strict gun control laws. Hmmm... So is gun control about guns or is it about control?

I dunno..why don't you find a liberal who is against owning guns and ask them?

But since you brought it up...I often wonder if conservative folks have thought it through when they want to tell a woman what she can or can't do with their own body. You see...it sets a precedent that allows the government control of the womb...and it works both ways. Think China. The same law that many conservatives of today want passed will be the nightmare of many conservatives in the future when they are forced into birth control due to overpopulation which absolutely WILL be a problem in the near future. That is an issue that is TRULY about control.

Maybe you don't care about abortion either..I don't know because I recognize that conservatives are individuals and some do support a woman's right to choose...not all conservatives are anti choice.... I do know that I support regulated and licensed gun ownership....I said it on this thread...page 2.

[countyboy]

I for one am a big supporter of the NRA. I have a concelled wepons permit and three gun cabiniets loaded with guns and ammo. For one I like to shoot and hunt. I live in an area where I do not believe I will have an issue with being home invaded but if I ever do the invader will be sorry. It's kinda like an insurence policy.
I have also read that if a war was to every happen on our own soil and if we were to ever get invaded that the us civialians are so heavily armed that if push came to shove it would take a huge army to overtake us. I think it's like a 7-1 ratio guns to hummans. I also believe that even if guns were banned crimminals would still find was to get guns to commit crimes leaving the good semaritan without any defense. My concelled wepons instructor told us a story about florida banning conceled wepons and the torists were getting robbed at gun point in the air port parking lot and at their hotels. Florida made it legal from concelled weopons and pretty soon the robbers were getting a suprise when they tried to rob someone. I for one would like to keep criminals on their toes and always wondering.... Does that guy I am going to rob.....Does he have a gun?

[stu]

More guns doesn't equal less crime - it's the other way round.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mu...h-firearms

[Pix]

More guns doesn't equal less crime - it's the other way round.

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/cri_mu...h-firearms

That doesn't really fit. The Swiss are pretty low on the list, and many countries above it have extreme gun control measures in place.

Also, in the United States, most states that have strong gun control also have more violent crime than states with more guns and less gun control. (It's not always true, but it's the way to bet.)

Also, there's another angle: violence in countries that started banning guns and their use in self-defense typically experienced a rise in violence (including gun violence as criminals were sure their victims would be unarmed), especially against women and the elderly, and that strongly suggests what seems to be the obvious: if the United States were to repeat the UK's mistakes, our tremendous violence would skyrocket like theirs did...and given how bad we ALREADY are....