Is it wrong to demonize "Rosary Rattlers" as they are sworn enemies of GLBT?

[nullnaught]

I want to be a lover.



But look, flipping the equation makes no difference.

1+2 = 2+1

Don't play their game.

I'm not playing games. They are, with my life. Not cool.
If they remained non-political, I wouldn't mind. But they get involved in political fights. They should PAY THEIR FUCKING TAXES.

[LateBloomer]

If you cannot understand the role and the importance of mythology in the human experience then it's obvious you'll NEVER understand the importance of the Father Figure AND the MOTHER FIGURE (EAST I'm looking at YOU)!

errr...I have ALWAYS believed in God...very much in fact. I have a faith that is very strong and this is a hard concept for alot of people to understand but I do not DEFINE God...I instead feel God and choose to keep my relationship with god private and personal...it is INTENSELY personal.

At one time I innocently used to talk about what I believed and after awhile I was embarrassed and mortified to find alot of people had adopted me as some kind of guru...someone who had "the" answer. I believe in being true to yourself so this was not a compliment to me and I quickly undid the damage I caused.

The second anyone else tries to define God for me...i see it for what it is...control with a healthy dose of the other person's ego.

I don't think most religion has anything to do with God. I think they are about control...and power...and they prove this over and over again. There are exceptions such as Glide in SF and I support them completely. Alot of gay people belong to Glide...I have no problem with them. It was gay people defending the Catholics I was taken aback by initially and it is this I didn't expect on a gay board. I accept this now.

Ok, up until now you never really said what you believe.

Secondly, I would never presume to define God to you. HOW CAN I?

I'm just trying to explain how I feel about fully participating in a fundamental human experience. For me, I can no longer deny God in my life as I can no longer live without love. I crave BOTH.

My Catholic experience is simply a cultural expression. Similarly I can no longer deny my Catholic roots any more than I can deny my ethnic origins. This is NOT some fly-by-night church in a strip mall. It has a history. Some of it is dark. We sin, repent, ask forgiveness, promise to live right, then sin again...

What can be more human than that?

[LateBloomer]

I'm not playing games. They are, with my life. Not cool.
If they remained non-political, I wouldn't mind. But they get involved in political fights. They should PAY THEIR FUCKING TAXES.

Taxes, I'm of no opinion.

Politics, you're right. It's wrong.

[East]

Ok, up until now you never really said what you believe.

Secondly, I would never presume to define God to you. HOW CAN I?

I'm just trying to explain how I feel about fully participating in a fundamental human experience. For me, I can no longer deny God in my life as I can no longer live without love. I crave BOTH.

My Catholic experience is simply a cultural expression. Similarly I can no longer deny my Catholic roots any more than I can deny my ethnic origins. This is NOT some fly-by-night church in a strip mall. It has a history. Some of it is dark. We sin, repent, ask forgiveness, promise to live right, then sin again...

What can be more human than that?

Well...the Bible is THE definitive example of religion trying to define God. Sorry but I have read it and my only response is...what did they used to smoke back then? Crack? Religion has twisted these idiotic words for centuries to discriminate against people and to start wars and to exterminate people...OMG.

I will keep it simple...for me God is love and my soul has a journey. I am completely at odds with the Bible and anyone who uses it to justify anything is presenting a basis of which I find no value or meaning. The only thing I like about the Bible is Jesus Christ...too bad most religions have forgotten completely what the man was all about and even worse choose to preach hatred and pretend they are speaking on his behalf. I used to have a bumper sticker that read "JESUS...SAVE US FROM YOUR FAN CLUB"

This is not to say I do not respect people who believe in the Bible but the secodn they quote versus to "prove" anything to I am outta there because I do not think a book written by a man whose "words of God" include stoning someone to death for ANY reason (and some of the reasons are insane) have ANYTHING to do with the God of my understanding and I love God too much to risk letting anyone who uses the Bible as "fact" to define anything for me. I also think assuming that a book someone believes in should be a basis or a standard for anyone but themselves.

I have a very independent mind.

[pellaz]

... The position of the Roman Catholic Church against GLBT Rights goes without saying ... I propose we hit these frauds with every dirty trick GLBT has.

most homophobic people are that way because they are not comfortable with with own sexuality. We extend this thinking into the Catholic Church organization.

[WesHollywood]

Hmm?

:confused:

Like I said, my spirituality, my sexuality and my politics are more complicated than I can sum up in a post on the internet.

I've gone full circle in my life, from young believer to militant atheist and now faithfully mellow.

I'm happy like this, I can see both sides of the discussion. I remember what it was like to be young and full of piss and vinegar. There's a time for that. But WITH TIME, comes perspective. And that's what we need most of all.

Oh, come on. JFK was a Roman Catholic, yet the Kennedy Library will tell you that he considered his life's achievement to be human rights. If JFK can make the decision, so can everyone else here. The Catholic Church stands in the way of progress. We should have had GLBT marriage on the books 50 years ago when African American had their civil rights insured by law.

If you are GLBT or GLBT friendly, there is no choice here.



If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

[LateBloomer]

Well...the Bible is THE definitive example of religion trying to define God. Sorry but I have read it and my only response is...what did they used to smoke back then? Crack? Religion has twisted these idiotic words for centuries to discriminate against people and to start wars and to exterminate people...OMG.

I will keep it simple...for me God is love and my soul has a journey. I am completely at odds with the Bible and anyone who uses it to justify anything is presenting a basis of which I find no value or meaning. The only thing I like about the Bible is Jesus Christ...too bad most religions have forgotten completely what the man was all about and even worse choose to preach hatred and pretend they are speaking on his behalf. I used to have a bumper sticker that read "JESUS...SAVE US FROM YOUR FAN CLUB"

This is not to say I do not respect people who believe in the Bible but the secodn they quote versus to "prove" anything to I am outta there because I do not think a book written by a man whose "words of God" include stoning someone to death for ANY reason (and some of the reasons are insane) have ANYTHING to do with the God of my understanding and I love God too much to risk letting anyone who uses the Bible as "fact" to define anything for me. I also think assuming that a book someone believes in should be a basis or a standard for anyone but themselves.

I have a very independent mind.

I think most people (practicing Christians) are guilty of malpractice.

Example: taking stories in the Bible in a literal sense. (Gardens, Floods, Kingdoms, etc...)

The Bible is meant to be taken allegorically. It's not a cookbook or an owner's manual for a DVD player.

Honestly I can't talk like this in front of other "believers". Why? Because it threatens their entire belief structure.

Do I believe Jesus was an actual historical figure? Yes.
Do I believe in the myth of Jesus Christ, as the only son of God, who was crucified and then resurrected? Yes.

Why do I believe in the myth of the resurrection; the myth of a great flood; the myth of holy kingdom?

I believe them because these themes and images are fundamentally intrinsic to our human history and nature--NOT because I believe we'll ever discover archeological evidence of a great flood NOR able to ever pin point with the world's most power telescope the exact location of the kingdom of heaven.

I think people who dismiss all of religion because "the fan club" has run amok are sorely missing out on a very rich experience. And I'm not accusing you, East, of throwing the baby out with the bath water, but let's be honest, it's the same as hating all Americans just because George Bush manipulated his office and other branches of the government for his own selfish gratification. Does that make the Constitution and Bill of Rights a big sham?

[LateBloomer]

Oh, come on. JFK was a Roman Catholic, yet the Kennedy Library will tell you that he considered his life's achievement to be human rights. If JFK can make the decision, so can everyone else here. The Catholic Church stands in the way of progress. We should have had GLBT marriage on the books 50 years ago when African American had their civil rights insured by law.

You're scrappy. I like that.



Listen, travel to Latin America, and guess who's working hard for social justice. Catholic priests and nuns, they're leftist down there, not the right wing wackos we have in America.

Hablas espnanol?

Derecho a vivar!

[nullnaught]

You are entitled to your beliefs, but the church you belong to forces its ideals on everybody wether they are Catholic or not when they get involved politically. Then the belief system needs to be attacked and if possible destroyed in self defense. Nothing lasts forever. Remember the Druids? there time came and went. Isn't it about time now, after 2000 years of oppression, the church give up the ghost?

[LateBloomer]

You are entitled to your beliefs, but the church you belong to forces its ideals on everybody wether they are Catholic or not when they get involved politically. Then the belief system needs to be attacked and if possible destroyed in self defense. Nothing lasts forever. Remember the Druids? there time came and went. Isn't it about time now, after 2000 years of oppression, the church give up the ghost?

What can I say?

One billion members worldwide, and climbing.