Is it wrong to demonize "Rosary Rattlers" as they are sworn enemies of GLBT?

[Rainbowmum]

They will self destruct in due time , they are losing members every hour of every day.
Their desperation is evident, and their implosion , will come as more light is cast upon their open violations of the bible.

Babylon the great will fall, soon enough the kings that she slept with will cast her out.
Knowledge is the best weapon we have , and in that the Internet is our friend in enlightening
others to the true freedom wisdom brings forth.

Matt 22:21 "Render unto Caesar the things which are Caesar's, and unto God the things that are God's"

Revelation 18:4 "And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye may not share in her sins."

I would much rather enlighten then condemn .

[Bowyn Aerrow]

I do not know, but would like to know if this story about Benny 16 is true or not. I picked it up in conversation without verification.

Apparently, when they were voting to see who would replace Pope John Paul, Benny 16 held the gavel. He nominated himself because he believed he could do the job best. This from a Pope who was in the Hitler youth?

I think it is a safe bet that Benny 16's involvement with Hitler youth does not affect his decision making today, huh?

Does anyone know if this is true. I have no idea.

That is not how it works, the system that is used to elect popes does not give one man the power to elect himself as pope. Through the centuries that has lead to longish periods without a standing pope, and lead to locking the cardinals in a room until they vote on a person. It is a 'true' election in that each cardinal votes, the votes are 'open' to the cardinals, there is no real way hanky-panky can take place unless they all conspire to elect a particular person.

I'm sure that Pope Benedict is swayed by the propaganda of his early youth, much as you are swayed by the propaganda of yours.

The difference is that he has lived an additional 70 years of life since then.

Understand that his cousin, a victim of down's syndrome was hauled off by the Nazis and 'cleansed' from the genetic pool (Aktion T4 campaign of Nazi eugenics) . Both were age 14. On top of this you can bet there was much pressure put on his family due to his father being an officer (police) of the community. This was forced indoctrination forced most likely by the threat of death.

You have been blessed to live in a place and an age where people are not picked up in the middle of the night and hauled off to a death camp. You are also blessed to not be forced to join service at the threat of death to your mother, father and your siblings.

Considering he deserted the military he was drafted into it is clear he did not believe in the Nazi war.

He is a man who lived through one of the darkest times of human history. He has spent the rest of his life 'atoning' for those 'sins' real and perceived. If you read his collective works you get a better idea of the man. He is a man of faith - perhaps misplaced faith in some areas, but he has strong faith and has done his best to be of service to Humanity and The Church and God

[WesHollywood]

Yes we are under no obligation not to destroy them.
And i know they have destroyed many peoples lives, including GLBT ones.
How is "they destroy GLBT lives" justification for us to do the same to them?

They are people, if we don't treat them as such, they wont ever learn that we are too.

And there are gay Catholics too. Do we destroy their lives too?

I'm sorry, i don't support "an eye for an eye" mentality. It just eternally perpetuates assholeness, vengeance and over-generalisation when applied to a whole demographic.

If this were thread on the philosophical implication of GLBT marriage and the Catholic Church, I would probably agree with you.

This thread is about the reality of bare knuckle politics between proponents of GLBT marriage and the Roman Catholic Church. Like it or not feelings and philosophies of life are going to get bruised in this thread.

For example. Proposition 8 in California, the ballot had only two choices, "yes" or "no." Roman Catholic Hispanics, many with illegal family members GLBT had helped, turned against us. We lost. This is unacceptable. GLBT politicos worked too hard to worry about the psyche of some brainwashed Catholic who is quasi-GLBT.

The political arm of the GLBT community is going to try again. However, we are not going to tolerate this indecisive GLBT Catholic crap again. They either get on board or we will hit them where they live. Out GLBT Catholics at work? Why not?

Put the dogma aside, where the Catholic Church lives is in their pocket book. Some say the Catholic Church could be the wealthiest organization on the planet. They may have more real estate than they have masses.

If you don't know if you are GLBT first and Catholic second, we have a problem, and you are an enemy of the GLBT community at large.

If you are GLBT or GLBT friendly, there is no choice here.



If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

[WesHollywood]

I believe gay couples are entitled to (or should be) every LEGAL right afforded straight couples under the law of the Constitution.

The Church is WRONG for pushing its belief structure on the state.
And the state is WRONG for telling the Church how to perform its rites.

There is plenty of blame to go around for the inequality that exists in the world.

I don't know how to be any more clear. Perhaps one day I'll settle down with a guy and in order to secure what should be our legal rights we'll "get married" in some type of ceremony.

That's all well and good.

I'm pretty sure that ceremony won't be in a Catholic church, but you know what? God made me; God knows me; and God loves me. No matter what happens in Wash DC or Rome, God loves me.

I think you are missing the point here. The Roman Catholic Church is playing politics like a lobbyist, when they have a tax-exempt status as a religion. This is a violation of separation of church and state required under America law.

The Roman Catholic Church has become a problem for GLBT politics. Yet they cry like babies when we use the same techniques anyone would use against a political enemy.

Please get the God and Jesus stuff out of this thread, it is irrelevant.

If you are GLBT or GLBT friendly, there is no choice here.



If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Non-tax service is not given as a way to control the churches.

It is given because the Churches are the main source of charitable 'good works' in our society. Tax Exemption is why the church can charge 2-3 thousand less per head per student than Government and other private schools.

Tax Exemption means that St. Vincent dePaul's that houses hundreds of homeless each night and feeds about 1000 each day is still standing in San Francisco. It is the reason why the Episcopal Sanctuary can provide 250 beds each night and feed 500-800 a night. In each city that has a religious organization standing behind some charity, soup kitchen, homeless shelter that property is paid for and not being taxes, allowing the church to use that money to tend to the needs of the sick, poor, etc.

Without tax exemption you do not just hurt the Church, you hurt the millions across the nation and billions around the world who rely on the Charity handed out by the Churches.

Yes Gay marriage is a political issue, however the Gays threaten to make it a religious one, and want to force the churches to acknowledge and perform gay weddings. No where along the line have the gays conceded that the church should be allowed to NOT perform gay weddings. Gays are not just seeking secular tolerance, but is also attempting to force the Churches to tolerate and bend their beliefs to appease the minority.

There is a choice, you are just too blinded by your own personal bigotry to see the options. You are no better than the bigot who screams 'Fag' when you walk down the street.

There is a moderate in between state here. The extremists on the issue refuse to see it, refuse to work toward it, instead the extremists want to destroy each other.

Come on Bowyn you are studied on religious issues. Gay marriage is a political question, and we have allowed the Roman Catholic Church to jump into politics. We need to treat them as lobbyists, and jerk their non-tax status. We have allowed a Vatican tail to wag the American dog. Enough is enough.



If you are GLBT or GLBT friendly, there is no choice here.



If you are not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.[/align]

[WesHollywood]

As Bowyn Aerrow alluded to up-thread, the Churches could be backed into a corner if certain laws were passed........

Perhaps you do not understand what bare knuckle, hard-ball politics is? The POINT is to back your opponent into a corner, and force them to do what you want. The end justifies the means. You grab your opponents balls, and the rest will follow easily. If you find this unpleasant, you are correct. Try watching more television news. It goes on everyday. It is called "reality."

[Bowyn Aerrow]

If this were thread on the philosophical implication of GLBT marriage and the Catholic Church, I would probably agree with you.

This thread is about the reality of bare knuckle politics between proponents of GLBT marriage and the Roman Catholic Church. Like it or not feelings and philosophies of life are going to get bruised in this thread.

For example. Proposition 8 in California, the ballot had only two choices, "yes" or "no." Roman Catholic Hispanics, many with illegal family members GLBT had helped, turned against us. We lost. This is unacceptable. GLBT politicos worked too hard to worry about the psyche of some brainwashed Catholic who is quasi-GLBT.

I showed you the real state map of red and blue.

You really think that southern California is a representation of the whole of California. Its not. It is eastern California that carries the majority vote, it is the 'silent majority' mostly conservative that has the greatest pull on these sorts of issues.

LGBT lost because in California they don't bother to come out to the boondocks and swing small town conservatives. You all are stuck in your big cities and ignore the rest of us... BIG mistake.

Modesto, the nearest 'big town' has a population of about 201,165 it only has one (1) gay bar. all of these other small towns are really small, Ceres, Riverbanks, Manteca, no gay bars....

We are Mennonite country, Red Neck Country, Cowboy country, Fundamental and conservative country..... No one bothers to come out here and push the Gay Cause on the people who actually hold a good deal of the votes.

Well a few of us are out here at the front lines - the rest of you cower in your Urban ghettos and hide.

[East]

No where along the line have the gays conceded that the church should be allowed to NOT perform gay weddings. Gays are not just seeking secular tolerance, but is also attempting to force the Churches to tolerate and bend their beliefs to appease the minority.

On this board yesterday was the first time I heard the notion that gay people are going to force a church to marry them. You mus be listening to alot of different people than I...I have not heard this from anyone except the church itself (and now here) who uses it as a scare tactic.

I have heard gays refuting this lie consistently.

[WesHollywood]

I know.

No problem.

I used to think like you, it's ok. Seriously.

You're right, politics is a lie.

But just because you can't see, touch and feel God doesn't mean He doesn't exist. You think that sounds crazy, I know, but there is more to the world than we know.

Try to see, touch and feel love. Maybe you can; maybe you can't. God is there in the space between you and me, If you believe He's pulling us closer together then He's real.

Politics is a hell of a lot more realistic than religion. I mean water into wine? Really!

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Perhaps you do not understand what bare knuckle, hard-ball politics is? The POINT is to back your opponent into a corner, and force them to do what you want. The end justifies the means. You grab your opponents balls, and the rest will follow easily. If you find this unpleasant, you are correct. Try watching more television news. It goes on everyday. It is called "reality."

LOL watch TV news - so they can show you their slant on reality, not real reality.

The WORST thing one can do is back their opponent into a corner. This leads to fear, people and organizations pressured with fear do highly irrational things.