Is it wrong to demonize "Rosary Rattlers" as they are sworn enemies of GLBT?

[Bowyn Aerrow]

No where along the line have the gays conceded that the church should be allowed to NOT perform gay weddings. Gays are not just seeking secular tolerance, but is also attempting to force the Churches to tolerate and bend their beliefs to appease the minority.

On this board yesterday was the first time I heard the notion that gay people are going to force a church to marry them. You mus be listening to alot of different people than I...I have not heard this from anyone except the church itself (and now here) who uses it as a scare tactic.

I have heard gays refuting this lie consistently.

http://wifeandmomoftwo.wordpress.com/200...wned-camp/

In another case of a clash between Christian traditional values and the new secular sexual morality, the United Methodist church group that owns a private campground retreat are suing the New Jersey government, saying its rights of religious freedom are being violated. The state is investigating a discrimination charge brought against the Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association by a pair of lesbians who wanted to use the private retreat camp ground for a “civil union” ceremony.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/britis...own-55371/

Mike Weatherley, the Conservative MP for Hove, wrote a letter Aug. 21 to Prime Minister David Cameron saying, “As long as religious groups can refuse to preside over ceremonies for same-sex couples, there will be inequality.”

I most likely could pull up more news along the same lines.

It happened before. The Secular government legalized interracial marriage, which was soon forced upon those churches that didn't hold with that.

[WesHollywood]

WHY is PRO-GAY anti-GOD?

Where did that idea ever come FROM?

I'll tell you: POLITICS.

Politics is the art of DECEPTION.

You dance all around the issue. I fear this is because you can not make a simple decision. The Roman Catholic Church is aggressively removing the GLBT right to marriage. They are succeeding. And you are supporting them.

Wonder how much the average Catholic pays per year for the
fancy dress coronations or are they masses - something like that?

[Bowyn Aerrow]

You dance all around the issue. I fear this is because you can not make a simple decision. The Roman Catholic Church is aggressively removing the GLBT right to marriage. They are succeeding. And you are supporting them.


Wonder how much the average Catholic pays per year for the
fancy dress coronations or are they masses - something like that?[/align]

How can you remove something that does not exist?

[WesHollywood]

......Do I believe Jesus was an actual historical figure? Yes.
Do I believe in the myth of Jesus Christ, as the only son of God, who was crucified and then resurrected? Yes.

I think you might find that an episode of Rod Serling's Twilight Zone would give you better fiction with a message, than anything in that uncollaborated bible of yours.

Why don't you just come out and post it. You are more of a Roman Catholic than you are GLBT? Just post it and we can all go do something else.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

I also believe that Jesus was a real man, who did indeed turn water into wine, cure the lame, cause the blind to see, ministered and preached to the multitudes, was killed and spent three days in the grave to rise again.

I further believe that his Sacrifice actually did save all of our 'souls', Yes Wes, your soul too.

There are, Wes, over 600 ancient texts, with many of those (not included in the bible) that attest to this man named Yehoshua ben Yosef (translated to Jesus, son of Joseph) and what He did and the miracles He performed.

To name but a few:
Gospel of Peter
Gospel of Mary
Gospel of Judas
Gospel of Matthias
Gospel of Perfection
Gospel of the Seventy
Dialogue of the Savior
Gospel of the Twelve
Gospel of the Hebrews
Gospel of the Nazarenes
Gospel of Bartholomew
Secret Gospel of Mark

I think you might find that an episode of Rod Serling's Twilight Zone would give you better fiction with a message, than anything in that uncollaborated bible of yours.

Why don't you just come out and post it. You are more of a Roman Catholic than you are GLBT? Just post it and we can all go do something else.

[WesHollywood]

This one really made me think, and for that I thank you Wes.
Since resigning from modern Christendom and embracing my Pagan heritage, I have tried to follow the Rede.

"Harm ye none do as ye will ."

To me, taking away someone faith is a pretty big deal, there are so many people out there who have nothing left but their faith.

Although I have questioned the leaders of the RCC .

Who gave them the right to choose who receives Gods blessings and who does not; who gave them the right to take away free will a gift that was given to mankind?

I must also question my self.

Who am I to condemn the hope of many? (warts and all)

There are so many good people in RCC , that have been brain washed in believing mans word over Gods word.
I believe these people will be forgiven , and will eventually wake up to the hypocrisies of the church.

Yes there are pedophiles in the church , yes the church has too many flaws to mention.

But if we Demonize it ; are we not doing the same to them as they have done to us?

As a Pagan I know only too well , how it feels when people get confused and call us Satanists (thanks to Hollywood tarnishing the image of the pentagram)

On personal level I will not sink to their level of debauchery and judgement.

That's my two cents.

Rainbowmum, I am not going to lose any sleep about demonizing Catholics, they do it to us all the time. I am as they say "only a Gentleman when I have to be. I am in the fields of advertising and politics because I am capable, and somewhat proficient at climbing right down into a sewer with anyone to fight it out. I am proud of the skills I am developing, but I am here to win. We are GLBT, these are our lives we are talking about. We must set the stage for the future generations of GLBT.

Who do you want out there fighting for GLBT rights? A bunch of fancy dress ladies and gentlemen talking like utopian intellectuals? Or, street-fighting soldiers? We are in this to win. We need soldiers not pontificators.

The INQUISITION, more good loving from the Roman Catholic Church!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

[nullnaught]

But that's just the point isn't it? The churches that were forced to perform interracial marriages have benefited by being forced to be moral! The RCC could do worse than be taught how to be moral; I'm afraid they don't have any idea after 2000 years. I don't imagine they will ever catch on.

http://wifeandmomoftwo.wordpress.com/200...wned-camp/

In another case of a clash between Christian traditional values and the new secular sexual morality, the United Methodist church group that owns a private campground retreat are suing the New Jersey government, saying its rights of religious freedom are being violated. The state is investigating a discrimination charge brought against the Ocean Grove Camp Meeting Association by a pair of lesbians who wanted to use the private retreat camp ground for a “civil union” ceremony.

http://www.christianpost.com/news/britis...own-55371/

Mike Weatherley, the Conservative MP for Hove, wrote a letter Aug. 21 to Prime Minister David Cameron saying, “As long as religious groups can refuse to preside over ceremonies for same-sex couples, there will be inequality.”

I most likely could pull up more news along the same lines.

It happened before. The Secular government legalized interracial marriage, which was soon forced upon those churches that didn't hold with that.

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Rainbowmum, I am not going to lose any sleep about demonizing Catholics, they do it to us all the time. I am as they say "only a Gentleman when I have to be. I am in the fields of advertising and politics because I am capable, and somewhat proficient at climbing right down into a sewer with anyone to fight it out. I am proud of the skills I am developing, but I am here to win. We are GLBT, these are our lives we are talking about. We must set the stage for the future generations of GLBT.

Who do you want out there fighting for GLBT rights? A bunch of fancy dress ladies and gentlemen talking like utopian intellectuals? Or, street-fighting soldiers? We are in this to win. We need soldiers not pontificaters.

Wes, your a dumb ass.

What you think you have a major battle on your hands? You tend to forget that the ground work, the real hard get arrested, be electroshock'd, be imprisoned, tortured work has already been done by those BEFORE you.

We LGBT didn't get here by being militant, we got here by slow pressures and eroding away at the issues. We built up, not destroyed.

Militant gays have done more to HARM our people than to do good.

10 years from now the USA is going to have most of the states with gay marriage. Mark my words. And its not going to be done by militant gays, its going to be done by the slow eroding, the gentle talks, the millions of us way out in the middle of the conservatives who are slowly swinging the votes in our favor.

In less than 50 years the Church will concede gay marriage.

[WesHollywood]

Non-tax service is not given as a way to control the churches.

It is given because the Churches are the main source of charitable 'good works' in our society. Tax Exemption is why the church can charge 2-3 thousand less per head per student than Government and other private schools.

Tax Exemption means that St. Vincent dePaul's that houses hundreds of homeless each night and feeds about 1000 each day is still standing in San Francisco. It is the reason why the Episcopal Sanctuary can provide 250 beds each night and feed 500-800 a night. In each city that has a religious organization standing behind some charity, soup kitchen, homeless shelter that property is paid for and not being taxes, allowing the church to use that money to tend to the needs of the sick, poor, etc.

Without tax exemption you do not just hurt the Church, you hurt the millions across the nation and billions around the world who rely on the Charity handed out by the Churches.

Yes Gay marriage is a political issue, however the Gays threaten to make it a religious one, and want to force the churches to acknowledge and perform gay weddings. No where along the line have the gays conceded that the church should be allowed to NOT perform gay weddings. Gays are not just seeking secular tolerance, but is also attempting to force the Churches to tolerate and bend their beliefs to appease the minority.

There is a choice, you are just too blinded by your own personal bigotry to see the options. You are no better than the bigot who screams 'Fag' when you walk down the street.

There is a moderate in between state here. The extremists on the issue refuse to see it, refuse to work toward it, instead the extremists want to destroy each other.

Please remember that Pat Robertson bowed out of running for president after "God told him to run." He quit because the IRS sent him a bill for all his television enterprises. He went for the money, they always do.

In politics money is the way to nail almost anyone. The Catholic Church is hiding it. It was in the news that a priest in a small border town near San Diego pulled $40,000 out of church account and hid it out of fear of a pedophile law suit. The TV clip was so funny watching the priest try to hide behind the Spanish language!

Frankly with all the news about the split between modern and traditional Catholics, (the Pope has defrocked Bishops on both sides) it should eventually split. All I want to do is pour a little salt in that open wound. You can't fault me for that now can you, Bowyn?

[Bowyn Aerrow]

Please remember that Pat Robertson bowed out of running for president after "God told him to run." He quit because the IRS sent him a bill for all his television enterprises. He went for the money, they always do.

In politics money is the way to nail almost anyone. The Catholic Church is hiding it. It was in the news that a priest in a small border town near San Diego pulled $40,000 out of church account and hid it out of fear of a pedophile law suit. The TV clip was so funny watching the priest try to hide behind the Spanish language!

Frankly with all the news about the split between modern and traditional Catholics, (the Pope has defrocked Bishops on both sides) it should eventually split. All I want to do is pour a little salt in that open wound. You can't fault me for that now can you, Bowyn?

I can and do. Two wrongs do not make a right.