Is it wrong to demonize "Rosary Rattlers" as they are sworn enemies of GLBT?

[LateBloomer]

BUnderstand that the Church is under constant pressure by its congregation and many 'silent' clergy who constantly argue for the LGBT community by demonstrating using that same bible that LGBT do deserve the same rights.

Everyone here has focused on the 'bad few' who stand out, no one mentions the rest of us who have dedicated our lives to slowly pushing the matter into a positive line.

We are totally ignored.

Amen.



[+ 10 characters...]

[nullnaught]

If we could make them feel as if we were close to striping them of their tax exempt status, then I think they would change a lot faster.

By what? Force, rioting? Picking out 25 illegal catholic immigrants to send back in public Shame?

Evil is evil, no matter who does it or for what reason. After all I could win this conversation by flying down to L.A. and shooting Wes - his silence would mean I won.

The End doe not justify the means. Never - ever, ever.

Ask Hitler who wanted to clean up the human genome a true revolutionary in secular thinking about dealing with the impairments of the human genome. He went about it the wrong way.


Understand that the Church is under constant pressure by its congregation and many 'silent' clergy who constantly argue for the LGBT community by demonstrating using that same bible that LGBT do deserve the same rights.

Everyone here has focused on the 'bad few' who stand out, no one mentions the rest of us who have dedicated our lives to slowly pushing the matter into a positive line.

We are totally ignored.

[nullnaught]

Then they have won.

If you give up and become the enemy the enemy wins.

I hear this sort of sentiment. I don't understand it in terms of game theory. I think to make this sort of thinking make sense, you have to assume right and wrong exist. As a matter of game theory, I think it is a good strategy to treat others as they have demonstrated they will treat you. Take the morals out and try answering this again. I am not a turn the other cheek type of fellow. Show me a logical reason not to treat them as badly as they have treated us.

[nullnaught]

I believe my response to their political behaviour is a political response. Strip them of their tax-free status for functioning politically. If christians had respected the seperation of church and state, civil and religious ceremonies would have no bearing on eachother and it would probably be a lot easier for us to get our mariage rights to say the least. But they always fight to conflate the chruch with the state. That is not our fault. They started the political fight. I say we should do what we can to win it decisively. And bending the church to our will by threatening their pocket book seems like the most handy way to go about it. Is this not so?

By what? Force, rioting? Picking out 25 illegal catholic immigrants to send back in public Shame?

Evil is evil, no matter who does it or for what reason. After all I could win this conversation by flying down to L.A. and shooting Wes - his silence would mean I won.

The End doe not justify the means. Never - ever, ever.

Ask Hitler who wanted to clean up the human genome a true revolutionary in secular thinking about dealing with the impairments of the human genome. He went about it the wrong way.


Understand that the Church is under constant pressure by its congregation and many 'silent' clergy who constantly argue for the LGBT community by demonstrating using that same bible that LGBT do deserve the same rights.

Everyone here has focused on the 'bad few' who stand out, no one mentions the rest of us who have dedicated our lives to slowly pushing the matter into a positive line.

We are totally ignored.

[WesHollywood]

How can you remove something that does not exist?

I would be willing to dig into this for you, and I will prevail. The right to marriage is Constitutional. GLBT believe our right to marriage is implied, and we seek clarification. I believe this is why the SCOTUS keeps pushing the issue back to the States as a delaying tactic so they do not have to hear the case. Case goes to SCOTUS, we win almost immediately. At least that is what my sources tell me.

My friend, the right to gay marriage does exist. You are in a sense married yourself. Surely you know this or are you once again lightening the mood with your sense of humor?

[Genersis]

I hear this sort of sentiment. I don't understand it in terms of game theory. I think to make this sort of thinking make sense, you have to assume right and wrong exist. As a matter of game theory, I think it is a good strategy to treat others as they have demonstrated they will treat you. Take the morals out and try answering this again. I am not a turn the other cheek type of fellow. Show me a logical reason not to treat them as badly as they have treated us.

Escalation?
When it turns into two groups trying to destroy the other, why would they stop at the same level of harm as their opponent?

Also, we are fighting for rights, to equal them in "damage", we'd have to fight to take away their rights. Which will make them fight to get back, and if they want to cause the same "damage" take away our rights.

It would either cause a vicious never ending circle of hate and conflict, or escalate to all out war and eventually extinction of one side(As these are both non physical traits, the trait would be eradicated from the public, and only a tiny fraction of people would secretly hold the trait).
Would you really want either?

Mahatma Gandhi: "An-eye-for-an-eye-for-an-eye-for-an-eye ... ends in making everybody blind."

Perhaps i am just not well read on the subject of human behaviour...

[WesHollywood]

Sure, if they don't agree with you, beat them with a baseball bat - that will change their mind.... Look how many gays 'bare-knuckle politics' helped.

The golden rule is 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you'.

Your take is wrong on so many levels....

I have no idea how many "bare-knuckle" political fights GLBT have been in. We won on DADT, but we have not won on a cure for AIDS. I don't make the rules or the politics. I listen. If it takes Al Capone tactics to make GLBT marriage the law of the land who am I to stand in the way?

I never doubted that you understood what "bare knuckle politics" was. Obviously, I did not invent it. Bare knuckle politics are a very real thing. More real than virgin birth.

My quote was that the Golden Rule in Business an Politics is "Do unto others BEFORE others do unto you." I live in the real world, there is no resurrection after three days here.

Your take on hard-ball politics is not based in reality. Things happen on the news for reasons we don't know about. Yesterday, Congressman Barney Frank announced he would not run for another term. He sighted redistricting as the reason. Do you believe that? His stated plan for some time has been he wanted to retire in 2014.

I don't know, but by the end of next week I will know more. I spend my time with real people who know what is going. I am plugged into many people networks. An approach to life I believe every American has a responsibility to shoulder.

If we do not watch our Government closely at every step, we will lose it. And, things are not looking real healthy for America these days. I would like to know how many letters the members of this web site have sent to their elected officials in the last year. I wrote three in the last month. My Senator, Congressman, and the CEO of HBO about an anti-GLBT message in a documentary they aired. This is every citizens responsibility. Not enough of us take it seriously.

We are a violent people. We need to stop
'glossing it over' and learn how to manage it.
Let's cut the bull shit.

[WesHollywood]

I think all of us in GaySpeak.com should pat ourselves on the back. This thread is a little over 24 hours old. There are 117 posts, and 977 views.This is a amazing to me as relatively new member, but is probably something the rest of you know.

When an important issue comes up we, GLBT, roll up our sleeves and dig in to work. I believe this is a very GLBT trait - hard workers.

I am a veteran of many political boards, but have never been this involved in a GLBT board. I would like to compliment the management of GaySpeak.com for not being afraid of tough issues, but striving to keep things constructive.

It is easy for any of us to get emotional especially in a thread like this where it is sexual political verses spiritual. Just wanted to take a moment from the fever of this thread to say this is what communications and the internet are supposed to be about. Kuddos! GaySpeak.com!

[nullnaught]

Escalation?
When it turns into two groups trying to destroy the other, why would they stop at the same level of harm as their opponent?

Also, we are fighting for rights, to equal them in "damage", we'd have to fight to take away their rights. Which will make them fight to get back, and if they want to cause the same "damage" take away our rights.

It would either cause a vicious never ending circle of hate and conflict, or escalate to all out war and eventually extinction of one side(As these are both non physical traits, the trait would be eradicated from the public, and only a tiny fraction of people would secretly hold the trait).
Would you really want either?

Mahatma Gandhi: "An-eye-for-an-eye-for-an-eye-for-an-eye ... ends in making everybody blind."

Perhaps i am just not well read on the subject of human behaviour...

Yes, if the side that hates gays is the one forced into hiding, that is exactly what I want.

[East]

I think all of us in GaySpeak.com should pat ourselves on the back. This thread is a little over 24 hours old. There are 117 posts, and 977 views.This is a amazing to me as relatively new member, but is probably something the rest of you know.

When an important issue comes up we, GLBT, roll up our sleeves and dig in to work. I believe this is a very GLBT trait - hard workers.

I am a veteran of many political boards, but have never been this involved in a GLBT board. I would like to compliment the management of GaySpeak.com for not being afraid of tough issues, but striving to keep things constructive.

It is easy for any of us to get emotional especially in a thread like this where it is sexual political verses spiritual. Just wanted to take a moment from the fever of this thread to say this is what communications and the Internet are supposed to be about. Kuddos! GaySpeak.com!

Yes! I have been a member of one political board since the 90s...I am in the middle of another religious discussion at another though it is cocoa puffs (Tebow praying). I am glad you started this discussion because I actually learned something....I havent changed my mind at all but I used to think there was no room at the table for anyone who was gay to defend our enemies (and they are our enemies...dont' kid yourself)..I have realized that I am wrong.

The one thing I tell the religious folks at one site when they bring up "you ask for tolerance"...ummm...do they think gay people have one single voice and that anytime a gay person says anything they speak for ALL of us?:biggrin: I simply state to them...do not believe your own bullshit. I never asked for tolerance...I am asking for equality under the law. You see...I have no tolerance for most of them BUT I would support equality under the law and free speech even for people I have no tolerance for so I personally have no interest in their "tolerance"...besides...it is bad manners to ask for something you are not willing to givemile: