British Elections 2007

[Canucker]

Hmm, so what do you guys expect next General Election in the U.K.?

Majority Labour Government
Minority Labour Government
Minority Conservative Government
Majority Conservative Government

I think Labour is old and tired and finished...

Living in Canada with so much privacy laws and civil rights, its amazing when you hear about the Nanny-state'ism of the "New" Labour...they have cameras everywhere, want to make a law that makes it illegal to take your hands off the steering wheel in your car.

Friggin ridiculous! Has it always been Big Brother their?

Well the Tories are the most successful political party in the world...so I assume their back in replacing Gordon?

I think Cameron is a tad image-obsessed though.

lol, Canada has gone through exactly what Britain is doing right now.

See in 1993 the Tories in Canada collapsed from a majority and the Liberals took a Majority Government under Chretien from 1993 too 2003. Chretien retired in 2003, and Paul Martin took over the Liberal Majority government for a year. The new united Conservative Party reduced the Liberals to a minority in 2004, and now the Conservatives are in a minority government since 2006 in Canada.

I mean you guys are going through the same cycle

Liberal Party of Canada = Labour
Conservative Party of Canada = U.K. Conservatives
Chretien = Blair
Martin = Brown
Harper = Cameron

In Canadian Parliamentary democracy, its historically always been true that when a P.M. or Premier (provincial equivalent to P.M.) resigns after a long stretch of that party governing, the new guy that takes over for a year or so, always is doomed when a new general election comes.

Anyways I like U.K. Politics, Canada has the same political Parliamentary structure and monarchy, so its easy to understand U.K. politics.

Ah Margaret Thatcher...wish Canada could get a Conservative like Maggie.

[marshlander]

... Ah Margaret Thatcher...wish Canada could get a Conservative like Maggie.

Be careful what you wish for :eek:

[Canucker]

lol, didn't she fix your economy from the Labour Socialist policies that had hurt the economy before her?

Labour is weird...their out and out publically "socialist".

Canada's most left wing national party (The New Democratic Party - NDP), won't even label itself socialist, it calls itself "social democratic".

Maybe thats a North American thing, "socialism" is a very very very negative term over here, and is despised in terms of economic policy.

[princealbertofb]

Oh, Canucker, you don't want to get my man started with Ole Maggie, oh no, you don't!!!
Like most human beings, she must have had her good sides. But many were left more hurt by her policies than unharmed. That's the way I see it, anyway.

[wouldlikemuscle]

Not really one for politics... and cant vote now as poll closed... but I'd never want to see a Conservative govt.. so I'd vote laboour as I know the others don't really stand a chance... would like to see how the Lib Dems handle it tho.

[marshlander]

lol, didn't she fix your economy from the Labour Socialist policies that had hurt the economy before her?

Fix the economy? She certainly "fixed" lots of people. She split the country, created havoc, used the police in her war against the working classes, created the conditions for selfishness and brutality to thrive (infamously claimed "there is no such thing as society"), presided over the introduction of evil legislation such as the appalling "section 28" the effect of which was to set back gay emancipation by many years, encouraged the US in its bullying wars against small countries that did things differently, saw the gap between the haves and the have nots widen ... Her interventions and policies threw whole communities into chaos. Next time you watch Billy Elliott take careful notes. Now say this after me, "Does Canada really need a despotic, evil witch to cure whatever ills I might think need to be addressed?" There were even many within the rank and file Tory membership who thought Thatcher's brand of Conservatism was an aberration. The patriarchal attitudes of previous tory governments seemed positively benign when compared with Thatcher's assault which, incidentally, also split the elected members of the Conservative party so deeply it is still in recovery.

Labour is weird...their out and out publically "socialist".

Don't get Labour confused with the so-called "New Labour" introduced by Tony Blair's governments. Many would disagree that New Labour was anything like traditional Labour. There was, in fact, a rout that almost amounted to a witch-hunt against many who held on to traditional labour socialist values. New Labour pursued many of the policies introduced by the Tories, particularly privatisation of public services and took them even further to the right, a feat many thought would be impossible.

What's wrong with being "publically socialist" ... whatever it means?

There may be many things about labour policy in England (I don't know enough to comment on the rest of the UK) that make me uncomfortable, but the country has been a much better place to live under Labour than under the Tory rule.

[Canucker]

lol...North America is pretty Capitalist, including Canada. Its political suicide in Canada and the U.S. to be a self-described "Socialist".

You can be for nationalizing certain services, etc, but you always have to support some level of free market...

Labour is an odd duck though, under Blair they moved pretty right wing after 911. Following the U.S. into Afghanistan, Iraq, I mean if you look at this chart. Labour has moved pretty right wing:

[Canucker]

David Cameron is a more a moderate? no?

[marshlander]

David Cameron is a more a moderate? no?

He certainly gives that appearance. At times he has attempted to push for inclusivity within the party, although his voting record in the past leaves him with a few skeletons to explain. Being naturally suspicious of any politician though (particularly one who has sought office!) I question the sincerity of his attempts to out-green the Greens and out lib the LibDems.

The chart you included in your last message was fascinating. I'm just Joe Public and have no formal background in political theory, so to see UK parties set out on an x-y grid like this was interesting. Where did you get this illustration? I am not sure I agree with the placements of all the parties mentioned. For example, I am pretty certain that Labour (both new and old) has shown more centralising tendancies than the conservatives. Wouldn't this place it further north on your scale of authoritarianism? Similarly, while I can see some similarities between the authoritarian dynamic of the BNP and the kind of communism practised by some countries in the former Eastern Bloc, the party itself is popularly perceived here as "ultra-right wing". I see also some contradictions. As a former member of the Green Party I can quite appreciate a strong anarchist streak among the rank and (un)file(d). However, in order to carry through their old ecology party agenda they would have to introduce some drastically authoritarian legislation. Of course, some parties are conspicuous by their absence from the chart, including for example, the Scottish Nationalists, Plaid Cymru, Sinn Fein, the Democratic Unionists and new phenomena like Respect (not to mention the Monster Raving Loony Party who were around for longer than many of the others). Parliament does, after all, govern the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. I wonder how the author of that piece of theory balanced out the conflicting tendancies within each political party.

The fear of socialism in the North American continent seems irrational. Can "socialist" be the only word left in the language that it so scary that no one is brave enough to assimilate and redefine the term? Fascinating

[Canucker]

Yeah in North America the word "socialism" is despised.

In the United States "Liberal" is a dirty word. Only 18% of the American population will call themselves self-described "Liberals". About 38% of the American population will call themselves "Conservative", and about 40% will call themselves "moderate". The U.S. Republicans were very very succesful in deamonizing the word "liberal".

Even Clinton and Obama...on a tv debate when asked to label their political ideology Clinton said "Moderate Progressive", and Obama said "Centrist Progressive"

Here is the link to that diagram:

UK Parties 2006