Are all people inherently good or bad? I think it is entirely relevant to talk about if not due to some of the recent posts but some of the events that just seem to unfold. My sister who also drives a Prius had her catalytic converter stolen. I had no idea it was a thing but apparently the Prius is a target on the older models I guess due to the ease or perhaps the demand being they're older (quick note, if you have a 2010 or later Prius and this happens to you, don't drive it, there are coolant lines that run past the converter that the thieves will cut through). Anyway, my sister works at a hospital and this was done in broad daylight. Just considering how morally bankrupt someone has to be, not just because they did it but they did it to someone who works at a hospital...in the middle of a pandemic. Not to mention it will cost about $3,000 to repair and there is the risk it could happen again....then again I suppose it could happen to anyone's vehicle, Prius or otherwise.

Also today, I was suppose to go on a date/hike with a guy. I texted him this morning and never heard back. No apparent reason. Not worried about it as I am enjoying my new fish I got which I'll post about later on and honestly didn't really feel like doing anything today.

Now I have always felt that people are "good" and that only a small portion of people are "bad" and do most of the bad things, like cut catalytic converters out of cars, or ghost people for no apparent reason. I feel that many of the good things that people do often go unnoticed, things like holding the door open for someone who has an armful of groceries or simply being polite to a stranger for no reason.

Of course we can discuss what good and bad is and how they're just constructs and there is no obligation to act a certain way other than well, I rather no sit in a jail cell. One argument I heard someone make was that people would murder if there were no laws against it, but is that true? Of course we can't really test that but I think morals are often learned very early that harming someone isn't good and seems to be universal across cultures, governments, regions. That's not to say everyone sticks to it, of course not. However, I do think humans instinct for teamwork, working together, is why we tolerate others in addition to laws. We wouldn't have survived as a species without working together. However the fact that we don't go around killing each other doesn't mean we're "good."

So social constructs aside, what does it mean that someone is good or bad? I think most would agree that someone who is polite to their waiter or waitress and tips well and donates to charity is likely a good person. But what if the same person gets on the highway and has severe road rage, brake checking people and running people off the road and so forth. Does this make this person bad? It would seem so. Why does a person's bad actions outweigh their good actions? I'm not suggesting that they should of course, but think on a smaller scale. Take the same scenario but instead of road rage this person is just lazy at work and does whatever they can to take time off, maybe lies time to time to get their way. Does that change your answer? Is this a bad person? They donate to charity, perhaps one that funds a charity that helps kids with cancer.

I know these are all hypotheticals, there are numerous examples that are gray, there are much better examples than what I have done here. I think we can understand that there is an understanding of what good and bad are and how we as humans think of those things which are shaped by our culture and experiences, so let's look at numbers. At the time of me writing this I have no idea what is coming next.

In the US in 2019 1,203,808 violent crimes were committed, that doesn't include smaller crimes say the theft of car stereos (is that still a thing?) or other petty crap like shoplifting. Just to put it in perspective there's about 330 million people in the US roughly. What about smaller crimes, say shoplifting, there were just under 6 million cases in 2019 in the US. Now it is fair to assume that the same people probably did it more than once, as 46% of shoplifters admit they've done it more than once. What about just being a jerk or an all around asshole? About 160 million people have anger issues while driving, including myself at times.

So are people inherently bad? I don't think it is entirely clear. I do think that there are some people who are and the rest fall somewhere in between. I think a lot of people try to rationalize their bad behavior. Wouldn't it be better if I stole from a rich guy like Jeff Bezos and not a single mother who makes $35k a year? It's still stealing. Is it because I am inflicting more damage from the single mother whereas Jeff Bezos probably wouldn't have noticed? Does that make it unfair? I mean if you ask me for the answer well, I think we might agree that stealing from someone who makes $35k a year versus someone like Bezos is not the same ballgame or even the same sport for that matter. Some might think that me having filed for bankruptcy was terrible because I broke my promise to pay back the banks that lent me the credit. Is it worse to hurt a bank versus say a family member who lent money?

I don't have all the answers to this, some of the questions I ask aren't because I don't have an opinion about it but for the sake of talking about it. I don't think we can say that all people are inherently good or bad, I think we are evolved to have this moral construct that for instance, killing other people isn't good. It definitely happened a lot more in the past than does present day (I'm talking before the common era, like hunter gatherers, cavemen, etc), but I think our evolution has a lot to do with how we got here along with culture and religions, like them or not.

No, at least at the start of their lives people aren't bad. No child is born evil. People aren't inherently bad, people become bad and that could happen due to millions of reasons - their upbringing, the environment they live in, the values they're taught, etc.

@Tjemka88 I agree that babies aren't born evil however there are people who become evil, say a psychopath due to structural problems with the brain, causing them not to experience remorse and show no remorse to people around them, sometimes becoming evil. All independent of their upbringing, environment and values taught. To further illustrate what I'm getting at here, if I poked at your brain in certain areas I could make your arms flail around and so on, I could also stimulate or inhibit areas of the brain that deal with emotion. There have been some experiments done do people who are psychopaths where they stimulate part of the brain that handles empathy and the result is that these people who were once unable to experience remorse or empathy now can.

I know this doesn't really prove anything other than that perhaps people who do evil things aren't evil because of how they were raised. That behavior can often be the result of a physiological problem. Of course there's behaviors that are no longer tolerated, such as human sacrifice... I think we would say that is bad now but people thought it was very necessary back in the day. Same with things like slavery and racial discrimination, those are some very obvious things that are very bad but at the time they weren't to many people. Just one thing in addition to all this, what we call good and bad now will likely bad different in the future.

Kind of makes you wonder about free will and whether we truly have it or not.

(12-06-2020, 12:36 PM)Tjemka88 Wrote: No, at least at the start of their lives people aren't bad. No child is born evil. People aren't inherently bad, people become bad and that could happen due to millions of reasons - their upbringing, the environment they live in, the values they're taught, etc.

Do you think people have certain genetic predispositions towards more sadistic behaviors?

I think in order to give a definitive answer we would have to define and agree upon what was "good" and what was "bad" behavior as it can be very subjective depending on who you ask.

I think everyone is capable of being either and/or both at any given moment but sometimes one trait overshadows the other. I also think absolutes are rare meaning most people have both good/bad traits - pure good or pure evil are rare but sometimes they can grow up and become Presidents and Kings

I think most people who do "bad" things do not consider themselves bad. Actually, I think most people would think most of their actions are good with their own justifications.

Using ghosting as an example, while many (including me) think ghosting is bad, I've read that some people think that's the most effective way to be clear and avoid embarrassing conversation...so to them, ghosting is actually good and they are the good guys.

So IMO it's really hard to define if people are good or bad by nature, since the concept of good or bad is basically man-made and everyone has their own moral scale. I'd say most people think of themselves are good people or at least, do good things most of the time.

@seeking I agree that people who do "bad" things are often rationalizing their behavior or actions.

I think guy ghosting people are often just not wanting to deal with it, we often take the easier path and ghosting someone is certainly easier than trying to talk to someone who you're not interested in. Of course there is a difference between not having chemistry and guys who are downright misleading, I do believe there are guy who ghost just for fun and take joy in getting someone to like them only to disappear. I suppose that might be the difference between what is justifiable and what is not.

I feel like it is similar to the myth that crazy people don't know they're crazy, just as "bad" people don't know they're bad. We often call them hypocrites.

Oh it reminds me when I was a kid working at a fast food restaurant and every sunday the church crowd would come in and they were the biggest assholes everytime. Their point of view was that I was a sinner for working on a Sunday, God's day of rest, right? I really do feel that people use that "I've been saved" shit to be shitty to people.

Funny is I don't use "good" or "bad" to describe people at all. Good and bad make almost no sense to me. I use other ways to define people's behavior, which nearly all the time makes me eager to be alone and see who I want to see only when I feel the need to see them.

I can explain further if you're interested...

(12-09-2020, 03:18 PM)BlueStar Wrote: Funny is I don't use "good" or "bad" to describe people at all. Good and bad make almost no sense to me. I use other ways to define people's behavior, which nearly all the time makes me eager to be alone and see who I want to see only when I feel the need to see them.

I can explain further if you're interested...

Well good and bad are just social constructs for the most part, so yes, do explain.

(12-09-2020, 05:00 PM)InbetweenDreams Wrote:

(12-09-2020, 03:18 PM)BlueStar Wrote: Funny is I don't use "good" or "bad" to describe people at all. Good and bad make almost no sense to me. I use other ways to define people's behavior, which nearly all the time makes me eager to be alone and see who I want to see only when I feel the need to see them.

I can explain further if you're interested...

Well good and bad are just social constructs for the most part, so yes, do explain.

I tend to live outside of social constructs for the most part, and only use them to sarcastically justify some of my actions.

However, as strange as it may seem, I only surround myself with people who say and do "interesting" things. By this word I mean people who are big thinkers and actually use their brain to get to know the others and me. People who are hot-blooded, energetic, funny, creative, generous and affective tend to attract me, equally as much as those who are impulsive, self-destructive or even show their sadic character. In fact, all I need for one is to have all these attributes or most of them in order to build some kind of relationship with them.

Therefore, I cannot stand being around cold-blooded, lazy or shy people. I am always looking out for someone who would set fire to my impulses, stimulate whatever emotions I am capable of feeling, and occasionally drive me to daily spicy adventures. Furthermore, seeing this person who eventually becomes so special to me I end up counting them among the ones I love, would be an excitement in itself.

Hope I am not too bad at explaining myself. To resume, I only stay around people who bring action to my life, because being continuously stimulated helps me evolve in some way or another. I always keep in mind, too, that I should never be afraid of losing anybody for any reason, because life is a series of accidents. That means, subsequentially, when I meet someone whom I am attracted to his attributes, I may see our eventual separation or rupture as a beautiful shock, even though it is painful.

So I replace "good or bad" with "stimulating or deserting", since as growing up, I have become a person that cannot be badly influenced by others at all.