The Christian vs gay debate (taking into account what the Bible supposedly says)

[princealbertofb]

Please take the time to listen to this young man. You don't have to be a christian to understand what it's all about. Tolerance and real understanding are the key words. So compelling! A remarkbly well argued speech.
http://www.advocate.com/op-ed/2012/05/01/opinion-do-not-give-christian-gays

[Bowyn Aerrow]

blah blah blah.... While I was out swaying bishops and cardinals and other clergy, he was sucking on his mommy's teat. :biggrin:

None of these arguments are his. While he may be standing up and getting credit, the reality is that the interpretation of the bible in a gay friendly manner has been going on for a long, long time.

Having battled with laity and men of the cloth for decades now. I can assure you that the people who need to hear this message the most are not listening. If any are they are gearing up with a rebuttal based on 2000 years or so of Doctrine.

He picked a fight that is one of the hardest to get any traction in. Decades - 25 years I spent 'arguing' for the gay friendly take on those 8 tiny verses that are held up and used to beat LGBT down.

And this 'war' has been waging a bit longer by so many individuals who threw years into it, many were excommunicated, cast out from their church.

A quick look at Amazon books and you get to see the number of Phd's and other lettered men and women who have told the same story: http://www.amazon.com/What-Bible-Really-...188636009X

This 'kid' is entering the war pretty late, while he may think he has a bright shining message I doubt he understands fully the bitter battle he has before him. Those who oppose oppose with all of their faith and might. They oppose like crazy people backed into a corner...

My hat is off to him if he can stick with it and actually sway a couple hardliners.

He has balls - big balls, to have his face and voice go so public.

[jaxc]

a few other points:
1. why don't they advocate the prohibition of eating shrimp & mixed fabric clothing?
2. If god hates gays why is NY, Massachusetts, and California still around?
3. haven't they ever heard of "separation of church and state".

[mrk2010]

The only bishop I know of is the one I bash hahahahahahahaha

[princealbertofb]

While I agree with you, Bowyn, that these arguments are hardly new, I thought they were presented very well and maybe they are coming at a time when more and more people are warming up to the idea... so maybe some lessons need to be told time and time again to sink in? I don't know... hope it makes a difference.

[Rainbowmum]

Very nice presentation of an argument ,I admire this young man courage.

First let me say , The act of rape has nothing to do with sex or being aroused.
It is an act of ownership , force and power over the victim.

Now onto the canonized version of what we call The bible.

"Deuteronomy 4:2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you."

1) Is not adding church theocracy breaking this?

2) If it is such a big deal why is it not part of the Commandment?

3) Jesus died for all our sins , at no time did he say except for gays.

4) Matthew 25:40
"And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

5) John 13:34
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. as I have loved you. "

1 Corinthians 13:4-8
"4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

6) Leviticus 19:18 "'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD"

7) Matthew 7:1, "Judge not that ye be not judged."

I could go on but I really do not want to bore you all to death.

[brybry87]

I still find it odd that out of the many religions out there Christianity [and possibly Islam] are the most intolerant of GLBT people/rights.

It's always Christian churches or organizations that fund or run groups that protest Gay Marriage or rights in general. You never hear of other religions that go about donating their money or putting their time to go on protests against gay people.

In my life I've met many Christians who have varying opinions about gay people or issues. Some of them take the Bible's words seriously and you can never argue with mostly because they'll never see your point.. ever.

There are some Christians though that are pretty open-minded and accepting of GLBT people. I've noticed that as of late that there are Christians out there who don't let an organization like the Church [Vatican or otherwise] think for them. Their relationship with their god is their own personal relationship.

I guess it depends where you live in the world, but with all the scandals and with the rise of other non-mainstream religions, and people finding their own way to whatever divinity [or non-divinity, lol] their looking for. Tolerance and finally acceptance of GLBT people will eventually happen. It might not be in our lifetime, but some people have said back then marriage between two man can never happen and it's already happening..

Just my two cents of course. Sorry for the tangent towards the end ;]

[Mrmatty376]

I don't see the point of this thread. We pretty much already went over all of this when someone asked about the suicide thing. You can't change people and there's nothing you can do to let them accept you. Over time, maybe people will be more tolerant, but that's the best it will get. And it's not just christians, you people seem to target them mostly, but there are other religions that don't accept the same things. There are countries and stuff that don't even allow it, which is way worse.
Anywho, I'm just saying it's kinda stupid to try to turn a rock into a brick of gold. It's not like you people don't judge them. Kinda stupid to be hypocritical to the hypocrites.
Sorry if i sound a little pissed. It just bugs me that people get into this. My best friend is a christian and I don't like other people putting him into a group which you guys dislike. He doesn't have a problem with gay people. His aunts are lesbians and both of us are friends other gay people. I dunno, it's a religion, an opinion, and your stupid for trying to change people. That goes for all parties.

[Spades]

Matty, there are Christians that don't need to be changed, just informed, and this guy does a great job at it. My deeply religious mother is an excellent example of that. She was raised in a house where they taught that being gay was wrong, since then she never had to think about it again as she didn't know of anyone she knew being gay. Until I told her that I'm gay. At first, her prejudicial upbringing kicked in and she told me it was a sin. But she was open to hearing my argument, read the verses in the light this guy presents it and over time, she has come to accept the fact that I'm gay. Heck, she was the one who told me about this forum :biggrin:

I have to give this kid a for standing up in front of a whole congregation and fighting for what he believes in!

[monk]

Very nice presentation of an argument ,I admire this young man courage.

First let me say , The act of rape has nothing to do with sex or being aroused.
It is an act of ownership , force and power over the victim.

Now onto the canonized version of what we call The bible.

"Deuteronomy 4:2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the LORD your God that I give you."

1) Is not adding church theocracy breaking this?

2) If it is such a big deal why is it not part of the Commandment?

3) Jesus died for all our sins , at no time did he say except for gays.

4) Matthew 25:40
"And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me."

5) John 13:34
"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. as I have loved you. "

1 Corinthians 13:4-8
"4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres."

8 Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away.

6) Leviticus 19:18 "'Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself. I am the LORD"

7) Matthew 7:1, "Judge not that ye be not judged."

I could go on but I really do not want to bore you all to death.

Post of the year.